Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
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Benefits

I am my daughters appointee for her benefits .They are paid to me in a account in my name only.There is getting on for £6 000 in the account now. Is it best for her for me to spend the money or apply for financial deputyship .Any help from you great people out there will be very much appreciated

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited October 2020
    Hi,

    Once the savings go over £6,000 if you're claiming any means tested benefits then they will be reduced. If no means tested benefits are being claimed then it doesn't affect them. Means tested benefits include Income Related ESA/JSA/ Income support, housing benefit, council tax reduction and universal Credit.

    Has your daughter been assessed as lacking mental capacity? You can't just apply  to become someone's "deputy"

    Being an appointee for her doesn't mean she's lacking mental capacity.

    Are you able to help your daughter to open a bank account? I'm my daughters appointee and her PIP gets paid to me but she has her own bank account and i transfer some of her PIP to her when she asks for it. If she want's something she asks me. She's not able to even count her own money but she hasn't been assessed as lacking mental capacity.

    There's more information here. http://craybecklaw.co.uk/practice/deputyship/

    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • cobblescobbles Member Posts: 7 Listener
    Hi there   Thank you for replying .As she is on benefits is it better for her to have below £6 000 in savings.And please dont think I am been nosey but this is all a mine field to me.You said you helped your daughter to open a bank account Is she under 18
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    It will totally depend what benefits she's claiming. My daughter is 19 but she's had a bank account since she was 16.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • cobblescobbles Member Posts: 7 Listener
    Benefits shes on are income related esa and pip
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    PIP isn't means tested so savings don't affect this. ESA, if she's claiming Income Related ESA then this is means tested. Savings/capital of £6,000 and over will affect the amount she's entitled to, for every £250 over £6,000 there's a £1 deduction per week, so if she has £7,000 then her ESA will be reduced by £4 per week. All changes must be reported!
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • cobblescobbles Member Posts: 7 Listener
    Do you have your daughters benefits paid into a bank account that is just in your name. Is it worth having savings with the reductions that get made
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Yes my daughters PIP is paid straight into my bank that's just in my name and then i transfer it to her as when she needs it. I can't tell you what you or your daughter should do with the savings, it's entirely your decision. As you are her appointee then it's your responsibility to report all changes.

    Although she should really have a bank account in her own name because you can never predict the future, If something happened to you then your daughter would not have access to any of her money and how would she manage without money? This is just one of the reasons why my daughter has her own bank account, in her own name and i would never deny her that.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • cobblescobbles Member Posts: 7 Listener
    Thank you for all this help.I do appreciate it.I get what your saying but if my daughters benefits are paid directly to me in a account in my name the same as your daughters are.If any thing happens in the future how will they then have access to the money as my daughters money will be been paid into a account in my name as is your daughters.Should the savings be in a account in my daughters name
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    No problem. Your daughter will not have access for quite a while, how long that will take i really have no idea. This is exactly why my daughter has her own bank account, which is in her name. I transfer her PIP money to her, when she needs it. I keep check on her bank balance and if it's running low. i'll transfer her some more. My daughter doesn't claim any other benefit other than PIP because she's still a student.

    Regardless of where the savings are, if she or yourself have more than £6,000 then you need to report the changes.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • davegregson40davegregson40 Member Posts: 81 Pioneering
    I receive PIP currently and the carers element of UNiversal credit. over £6000 and the uc is assessed and reduced accordingly.

    The point to make with PIP is that it's not a means-tested benefit so doesn't come into any issue or savings or shouldn't do?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I receive PIP currently and the carers element of UNiversal credit. over £6000 and the uc is assessed and reduced accordingly.

    The point to make with PIP is that it's not a means-tested benefit so doesn't come into any issue or savings or shouldn't do?

     PIP isn't means tested so any savings/capital doesn't affect it. UC is means tested so savings or more than £6,000 will reduce your UC entitlement by £4.35 per month for every £250 over that amount. Savings of more than £16,000 and you won't be entitled to any means tested benefits.

    Savings of more than £6,000 also affect council tax reduction, if you're also claiming this.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • cobblescobbles Member Posts: 7 Listener
    I know the savings have to be reported.  I was asking are they better to be in a bank account in my daughters name so she as access to them in the future 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    cobbles said:
     I was asking are they better to be in a bank account in my daughters name so she as access to them in the future 

    We seem to be going round in circles here, i've already given you this advice in a previous comment.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • LuckeeBlackCat1LuckeeBlackCat1 Member Posts: 21 Listener
    Hi, Cobble
    Have you considered making a discretionary trust with solicitor for your daughter? It cost a bit but if she lacks capacity to manage her finance and long term sick or disabled like I am, it's worth setting up and make use of money she has now. I have a trust set up by Irwin Mitchell Solicitors when I received large compensation regarding my ill health and needed to protect my benefit entitlement such as keep receiving ESA, DLA, Housing and Council Tax benefit regardless of this fund. Solicitor wrote trust document with my friend as co―trustee and letters to DWP, local council and Jobcentre that my compensation  fund in the trust account is not counted as disposable income thus no change with my benefits. I am sole beneficiary. My friend helped me co―sign cheques and solicitor set up a Clydesdale Bank account. I have bank card for convenience. She must separate this trust account with money and other money in existing account as set by solicitor. In future if she inherit from parents house or asset or money put into trust so that she won't lose benefit if dhe is still entitled. You may appoint yourself as co―trustee and msy be also godparent or sibling as well, so even parents pass away, she doesn't have to make change by solicitor. Consult them that's initial consultation free and choose best type of trust. Power of Attorney also considered. If others in similar situation by receiving inheritance reduce benefis as well as disabled people has to eat into inheritance is risky because you may not know how long is it going to last or losing benefit entitlement then later has to claim again difficult to prove needs without help of parents or changes in system getting harder. Don't accept reduce in benefit by £6000 threshold. Trust can help being separate entity can invest fund elsewhere but always consult solicitor and reputable financial professionals. Hope it helps. Tell others, search online. Much love  
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    @LuckeeBlackCat1 hi and welcome,

    Your trust was set up to purely to protect your compensation payout from your means tested benefits, which is perfectly fine. Although these types of trusts are usually called personal injury trusts, not discretionary trusts.

    Discretionary trusts are usually set up for inheritance purposes. https://www.simpsonmillar.co.uk/media/what-is-a-discretionary-trust-and-how-does-it-work/

    My concern here for cobbles is that setting up a trust fund could potentially be seen as deprivation of capital because their circumstances are completely different to yours. For this reason i'm going to advise cobbles to get some expert advice before they do anything else.

    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • LuckeeBlackCat1LuckeeBlackCat1 Member Posts: 21 Listener
    poppy123456 Of course, please do advice cobbles. Thank you very much looking out for them.  I merely mentioned my own experience who set up a trust. I already have advised to anyone who might have read my suggestion to seek full professional advice such as qualified solicitor in any case. To set one up needs to hire them and paid for their professional services. It's not cheap either. We lay persons have no authority to set up any trust. I never pretend I am qualified to force any unsound advice. It's to do with UK laws (It may be different in Scotland or N. Ireland!?) and financial authority. I cannot be held responsible for anything. I only liked to help giving my little experience that a trust of some kind may help others.  ha ha. I am just a unemployed designer with BA and other qualifications. What do I know?  But I have 'ring fenced' my criminal damage compensation to a trust by a best known solicitors firm. Irwin Mitchel work for disabled people. Thanks pointing it's also called Personal Injury trust. IM has tv ad. (my two solicitors were switched hands.) Setting up trust by qualified solicitor by family's appointment for sick and disabled person who may lack capacity to handle large sum of money is totally legitimate! And UK Government has set it up to protect the interests of vulnerable, ie not to lose health related benefits we may be entitled to. So I took advantage by advice of my solicitor and laws were used to protect my interests. I have sent such notice of setting up a trust written by my solicitor to relevant authorities, HMRC, DWP and local government. They fully understood by laws that my trust fund is not counted as disposable income or savings over £6,000/£16,000 thresh hold. Cobbles daughter seem still very young and her parents may be her carer at the moment so she saved up excess of £6,000 that they might used to hire PA or bought services. Or just simple age appropriate ISA may be honest way to keep saving and declare. This also need proper financial advice. And, I am still entitled to ESA, in Support Group and other benefits by needs and capability assessments. Furthermore, I will not feel anyhow cheating system nor use my trust fund to sustain me regularly. I am not supposed to be able to work and earn living, thus the award given for my loss of earnings caused by very very very serious crimes judged at the Old Bailey that gov authority examined my ruined ill health was caused by the crimes! I do not at all becoming sick and disabled, jobless with multiple injuries and incurable illnesses as adult of fully educated and qualified and suffering all the bloody consequences even after 20 years and probably rest of my life! I do not tolerate any prejudice or doubt as if you suggested as if I am hiding my ill gotten money away? NEVER!! I am the innocent victim. I will never ever degrade myself to any shady activity as if I hide my compensation? Do not insult me. I cooperated with police, CPS, barristers, doctors, Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority, DWP and solicitors anyone who have helped me get justice. Can you imagine how long I corresponded with CICA? Six long years! I got pro bono solicitor helped me about three years while he trained. I persevered, I was right to receive the award of loss of earnings and loss of ability to work by the crimes worse than death!! Do not insult me! It's triggering my trauma!! Do not write to me anymore!!      
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    @LuckeeBlackCat1 hi and welcome,

    Your trust was set up to purely to protect your compensation payout from your means tested benefits, which is perfectly fine. Although these types of trusts are usually called personal injury trusts, not discretionary trusts.


    @LuckeeBlackCat1 You have  misread my comment. I didn't insult you and i'm sorry you thought differently. I also didn't accuse you of hiding your compensation from DWP or anyone.

    I quoted part of my comment above, which does actually say that setting up a personal injuries trust is perfectly fine, i've highlighted that part of my comment so that you can actually see what i wrote.

    The reason i commented in the first place was because cobbles circumstances are completely different to yours and setting up a trust for cobble's daughter would been seen as deprivation of capital.




    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • Tori_ScopeTori_Scope Posts: 4,033

    Scope community team

    Hi @LuckeeBlackCat1. It sounds like you did the right thing in your circumstances and thank you for sharing your experience as I'm sure many will find it helpful. I don't believe that @poppy123456 was trying to insult you or accuse you of hiding your money away. She was just explaining that your circumstances are different from cobbles', and that it's worth them seeking expert advice before deciding what to do with the money so that the DWP don't think it's a deprivation of capital:
    Deprivation of capital is when you knowingly reduce or transfer elsewhere your savings or other capital to get, or increase your award of Universal Credit. This may be before making a claim or during an existing claim.
    I hope that makes sense. If you ever have any questions or need something to be explained further, please feel free to ask!
    Online Community Coordinator, she/her

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