Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
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Potentially exceeding permitted work limit

Hi poppy and all.

Query about permitted work. My sister received an overpayment in her monthly permitted work wages Oct 20 in error, which was corrected the month after, however the pay for the month the error occurred, both earnings limit and hours was exceeded but as this was corrected Nov 20 pay, do dwp need to be informed of the error.

Took until after the nov 20 pay received and much communication with the employer to get them to clarify the error, so didnt want to contact the dwp till clarification was received. Spoke to welfare rights and they advised it was an error and have proof if the payment is flagged by dwp so to probably leave things be, but just wanted to see what people here think.

Any advice as usual much appreciated

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 22,214 Disability Gamechanger
    Even though the pay wasn't correct, if it was correct would her earnings have been below the permited work amount? and would the hours have been less than 16 hours?
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • anthonyj1anthonyj1 Member Posts: 103 Courageous
    Hi poppy,

     thanks for quick response, yes it woild have been below 16 hours snd below the permitted earnings amount.

    Have letter from the employer confirming that we notified them of overpayment and deductions woild be made in next pay. Waited for the next payslip and it didnt show a deduction, but have an email from them confirming  they deducted the 14 hours she was ovetpaid in oct 20, she worked 42.5 hours for nov 20 pay but they paid her for 28.5.

    Asked the employer for a letter head to confirm but 1they have not responded, and my sister was tuped over to new employer 30th nov. So welfare rights said the confirmation we have is ok, she didnt earn the amount and it was an error, so don't know the best way forward as  worried if tell dwp they will end her claim!!!

    What would you suggest poppy as dont know the best way forward.xx
  • littleacornlittleacorn Member Posts: 118 Courageous
    Is the number of hours she has worked disabled permitted work hours or hours which you have already informed the DWP of plus some other benefit?
  • anthonyj1anthonyj1 Member Posts: 103 Courageous
    Hi little acorn,

    Its permitted work,  agreed with dwp, gets esa support group and pip

    Thanks for any help you can give
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 22,214 Disability Gamechanger
    Even if you decide not to tell them, they may find out anyway because DWP have access to Real Time Information (RTI), which is usaully how an employer reports earnings. If the worst does happen her ESA would be suspended pending enquiries.

    If it was me then i'd rather tell them and explain what happened than my payments stop. You have proof that she was overpaid and that's all that matters, providing it's on letter headed paper.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • anthonyj1anthonyj1 Member Posts: 103 Courageous
    Hi poppy, 

    Its on letter headed paper about the overpayment. Would i be better sending it by post, recotded delivery with the explanation i have given above? And would citizend advice help me with it do you think?.

    Or should i ring them anf will my esa be susoended once i tell them? Xx
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 22,214 Disability Gamechanger
    Any help given from CAB would be through telephone calls, rather than face to face. There's less chance of your ESA being suspended if you tell them but i can't tell you for certain whether it will or not.

    I'm not sure why Welfare rights advised not to tell them because the error has been corrected because the RTI would show how much she was paid.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • anthonyj1anthonyj1 Member Posts: 103 Courageous
    Thanks poppy 

    So i wont be able to get much help from CAB would i? 
    Would i be better ringing them or putting it all in writing? Xx
  • littleacornlittleacorn Member Posts: 118 Courageous
    I may be wrong but I thought permitted work was only 16 hours. It might be worth findingnout so that you know where you stand before contacting them.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 22,214 Disability Gamechanger
    Only through a phone call. Maybe better to do both, write the letter first and send it, making sure your name and NI number is on it (keep a copy also) then wait 10 days or so and ring them.

    Do bear in mind that i can't tell you exactly what would happen. I'm only advising you what i would do, if i were you. Personally, i would always prefer to be honest because i would worry far too much otherwise. I'm assuming you would be the same, with your anxiety.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • anthonyj1anthonyj1 Member Posts: 103 Courageous
    Hi little acorn  

    Yes its below 16 hours permitted work, but they have overpaid her in error, she worked less than the 16 hours 
  • anthonyj1anthonyj1 Member Posts: 103 Courageous
    Yes your right poppy, what would happen if i rang them first, woild they suspend her esa? Xx
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 22,214 Disability Gamechanger
    I have no idea if they will suspend it if you tell them.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • anthonyj1anthonyj1 Member Posts: 103 Courageous
    Okay poppy and thanks for your help, much appreciated as always xx
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 22,214 Disability Gamechanger
    I may be wrong but I thought permitted work was only 16 hours. It might be worth findingnout so that you know where you stand before contacting them.

    HI,

    You are indeed wrong. Permitted work must be less than 16 hours. If someone worked 16 hours their ESA would stop.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 22,214 Disability Gamechanger
    anthonyj1 said:
    Okay poppy and thanks for your help, much appreciated as always xx

    You're very welcome. xx
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • anthonyj1anthonyj1 Member Posts: 103 Courageous
    Hiya poppy and everyone, 

    Update on my sisters esa and permitted work query above.

    Have submitted letter and payslips regarding overpayment of 14 hours and subsequent deduction from pay the next month. Also submitted letter from loc councillor supporting my sister, stating affecting her mental health worrying about it when is an employer error. 

    Not heard anything yet, but as her hours and pay have fluctuated anyway, will they calculate average pay and hours to determine hours and pay does anyone know?

    She is paid 4 weekly and average pay each pay date is under 16 hours and under pwl for earnings, but not sure if they will want weekly breakdown.

    Have checked the dm manual and it states, calculate average for 5 weeks immediately prior to date of claim (so presume this would be date overpayment occurred) or any other period for average to calculated reasonably.

    The manual has made my head spin, so hoping someone can give clarification or advice.

    Thanks and hope everyone is well 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 22,214 Disability Gamechanger
    You've done all you can do for now. If there's any issues they will contact your sister. I'm sorry i don't have any other advice for you.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • anthonyj1anthonyj1 Member Posts: 103 Courageous
    Ok poppy thanks for replying so quick and hope all is well with you and yours.

    I understand will just have to wait and see, but my sister is really worried about it and anxiety has been through the roof since it started

    If anyone else has any clatification on how fluctuating hours and pay are calculated with permitted work, would appreciate it

    Many thanks 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Community champion Posts: 22,214 Disability Gamechanger
    We are fine, thanks for asking. I'm sorry this is causing her more stress. I can't honestly see that there would be any problems because it was an error made by her employer, which was corrected. The reason i advised to tell them was just incase they found out, which they may. She's contacted DWP and sent them evidence proving it was an error, i'm sure everything will be just fine.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • anthonyj1anthonyj1 Member Posts: 103 Courageous
    Thanks poppy, glad all is ok with you, your response is very reassuring. Thats what I keep telling her

    Just hoping they update her details with the overpayment error and dont ask for more information and suspend her claim.

    Will keep you updated  enjoy the rest of your weekend poppy xx
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