PIP, DLA and AA
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Could someone explain one descriptor for me please

dooleydooley Member Posts: 3 Listener
edited February 25 in PIP, DLA and AA
I am so sorry to ask another question I know I’m really super annoying. 
Please could someone if possible give me some help with the communicating verbally descriptor?
Does it just mean whether you can talk? What about if you can do the physical act of talking and you understand what is said but you can’t do it effectively.
So one of my examples would be at my neurology appointment last month, the neurologist asked about the new medication he had prescribed, I didn’t want to offend him and say it wasn’t working and I wasn’t expecting the question the way he asked so I just said yes it’s going good. Even though I’d stopped taking it weeks before because it brought me out in hives, intensified my nausea and did nothing for my migraines. So I ended up discharged from neurology because I couldn’t communicate effectively for myself and now have to build up the courage to go back to the GP and get re-referred, which could take me weeks or could take me years to do. It’s not because I want to lie to him but I don’t know how to say things sometimes, especially when it is important and I have to answer or reply on the spot. 

Afterwards I spend weeks beating myself up over the fact I lied and replaying the conversation in my head and being unable to sleep because I’m so angry at myself for messing up again and another reason I’m a failure. What’s worse is I had the appointment with a script ready in my head to explain I had been feeling worse and wasn’t getting on with the medication, but he didn’t ask “how are things going” like he usually did, he said “have things improved since you started XXX” so he’d assumed I was still taking it and I couldn’t see how to say I wasn’t and the room started spinning and I just wanted the conversation to end so I just agreed it was good and mumbled thanks when he said that since I was responding well to medication he’s happy for me to return to GP-led care. I always just agree with things being asked because I don’t like to cause trouble or be a nuisance and even though the logical side of me knows it causes more problems, in the instance it’s the simplest solution so that’s what I do. I can’t speak for myself or communicate effectively and need support to express information.

It’s the with every conversation I have and I have endless examples where it has caused me quite serious trouble

Or is this mainly just more stuff I should put in engaging with other people?

I wasn’t sure if it would apply for communicating verbally as it does say about prompting. 

Sorry this question ended up like war and peace and thank you if anyone can help. 

Replies

  • Sandy_123Sandy_123 Member Posts: 1,538 Pioneering
    @dooley hi Dooley, firstly your not annoying at all,  it's nice to hear from you.
    I would contact your gp and explain that you stopped the medication for reasons you said. They may have alternatives. You did the right thing in stopping it, if it makes you worse.

    Communicating can be difficult or awkward at times. I think every one feels this way when put on the spot. 
    It might help if you could take someone with you who you know, to put you at ease, I know that may be difficult in covid times. 
    Hopefully you get it sorted.

  • dooleydooley Member Posts: 3 Listener
    edited February 25
    You’re so very kind to reply to me @Sandy_123, thank you for taking the time.
    I do know exactly what I should do but I can’t do it. I know I need new medication and to speak to my gp but it can take me ages to build up the courage to even get an appointment. And even then there’s no guarantee I’ll be able actually say what I need to say.
    If the conversation doesn’t go as I plan it just throws everything off.
    Like last February I was meant to pick up a blood request form from the doctors and I’d put it off for weeks and finally got the courage to go. I planned the whole thing, the receptionist would say “how can I help?” And I would reply “I’m sorry to bother you, I need to pick up a blood request form” and give her the details. But instead when I arrived she said “you can sign in at the screen over there” and pointed to the touchpad on the wall. And I didn’t know what to do so I went and pretended to use the touchpad and sat trying not to cry until she moved from the desk so I could leave and sob all the way home. It’s a year later and I’ve still not had those blood tests. 
    I’ve always been this way, I’ve tried counselling and therapies and all sorts and nothing has ever helped. Even as a child I just agreed with everything and without going into too much detail, it has cost me a lot - financially, emotionally and physically. 
    It’s possibly one of the contributing factors to my social anxiety and why I’ve withdrawn from society. But it’s a vicious circle. 
    Anyway this has turned into another novel I’m so sorry. I just wondered if this sort of thing would be involved in the “communicating verbally” or if it’s just being able to talk and designed for people who have a physical disability preventing them from speaking clearly such as mutism or a stutter etc. 
  • OverlyAnxiousOverlyAnxious Member Posts: 1,435 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    It's my understanding that the verbal communication descriptor is generally for physical impairments, or where someone may be unable to speak or understand due to ASD or an LD for example.  I think your symptoms should go under the 'mixing with people' question personally.

    I have similar problems with direct interaction (anything other than email basically!) and scored full points for that one, but nothing for verbal comms.   
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,575 Disability Gamechanger
    Your issues definitely come under communication rather than engagement. The argument you need to state is that you cannot communicate verbally with any reliability. In your case that would be not being able to do it to a reasonable standard or indeed in a reasonable time. Fairly straight forward points on offer if you Guggenheim detailed examples such as the above.
  • OverlyAnxiousOverlyAnxious Member Posts: 1,435 Disability Gamechanger
    Your issues definitely come under communication rather than engagement. The argument you need to state is that you cannot communicate verbally with any reliability. In your case that would be not being able to do it to a reasonable standard or indeed in a reasonable time. Fairly straight forward points on offer if you Guggenheim detailed examples such as the above.
    Thanks for the clarification.  Out of interest, what sort of example/scenario could be used for the engagement descriptor if not that?  
  • dooleydooley Member Posts: 3 Listener
    edited February 25
    Thank you all so much you are so nice. 
    This is for my MR as I am appealing, not application, so do I put these examples in my MR? They were in my original PIP form but they lost my pip 2 so didn’t use any of my answers when doing my paper-based award. 
    Do you know what points this should score me? I also need to appeal my engaging with others part but I don’t want to be greedy and ask them to look at lots if I don’t need to and I don’t want to take all of your time with too many questions.
    Thank you very very much already. 
  • leeCalleeCal Member Posts: 3,648 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 25
    @dooley if you follow the link I gave you and read down you’ll find the descriptors and the points they score. I thought this link would help you even though it’s an mr, ie some tips to help you with your mr that you’re compiling.  I also thought the examples would help you see how you can give your own examples. 🙂
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,575 Disability Gamechanger
    Your issues definitely come under communication rather than engagement. The argument you need to state is that you cannot communicate verbally with any reliability. In your case that would be not being able to do it to a reasonable standard or indeed in a reasonable time. Fairly straight forward points on offer if you Guggenheim detailed examples such as the above.
    Thanks for the clarification.  Out of interest, what sort of example/scenario could be used for the engagement descriptor if not that?  
    Engagement is misrepresented in the PIP 2 as mixing with people. In turn that leaves claimants and DMs believing that if you can have so much as a hello with a HCP or the girl on the till at your local shop then you can’t score points. Total nonsense. It’s about forming relationships; being able to know who someone is and being able to both contribute to and follow a conversation. DWP have in their heads people with an LD but I regularly get people 2 to 4 points who have sight impairment which involves a lack of central focus. If you can’t focus how do you recognise people without some kind of prompt from the other person or someone with you? How do know that your response is appropriate? Are they looking at you quizzically or smiling? And so on. 

    DWP also use the mixing idea to suggest that if you work you can’t score engagement points because you must talk to lots of people. Being able to talk is about communicating. That’s not the same as needing assistance or promoting in order to engage in the first place. 
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