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Decision letter as expected - some questions

anxiousbirdanxiousbird Member Posts: 144 Courageous
Hi all, so I’ve got my decision letter now (dated 2nd March, and DWP received my assessment report late on 27th feb, so decision made and letter posted within 3 days of assessment!). As expected, I’ve got zero points. I’ll be doing an MR now, but have a few questions..
1) in the decision letter it states that although you have difficulty showering, this is not on most days. In my report and in the assessment and on my pip form, I did mention that I had difficulty with showering but only showered once every 8ish days. Is this why the decision maker has concluded that my needs are not ‘on the majority of days’ because I don’t perform that activity on the majority of days? Can I dispute that? I don’t shower BECAUSE of my problems so surely that should count? I’d love to shower everyday but I can’t! 

2) the assessor did not take all my evidence into account (on the front page it says which evidence they have considered). Shall I dispute that? Will the DM actually look at the overlooked evidence? Is it worth sending the evidence AGAIN with my MR? 

3) I requested a copy of my session notes from my CBT courses and received them yesterday. Is it worth including some pages of that with my MR? I feel like session notes contain way more information than any other letter. 


Kind regards 

Replies

  • woodbinewoodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 4,534 Disability Gamechanger
    The idea for an MR is that it is looked at by a different DM, I see no problem with sending additional evidence as long as it was relevant at the time of your initial application.
    "Putting a child into care, isn't caring for a child" (T.Rhattigan)
  • cupcake88cupcake88 Member Posts: 956 Pioneering
    @anxiousbird I’m gutted for you . I really can’t provide you with any factual information about pip I wouldn’t want to give you any false information. 

    I get pip for mental illnesses and I did score 2 points on the washing question because I need to be reminded constantly to wash due to my mental health I also can go days with out washing my partner has to really encourage me and remind because as you can relate when you have a mental illness you don’t wash and change clothes daily majority of the time .  I would definitely explain each point on your MR and how each descriptor affects your life day to day .  

    I thankfully got pip with out having to do a MR so I can’t advise on that but I will say that they don’t count appointment letters as evidence . Things like medication lists you could send off , and any notes from mental health team , doctor , nurse , support worker psychiatrist And any one involved in your care that explain your illness and how it affects you day to day any thing like that would be great things to send off . If you could get some thing from your therapist explaining how your illnesses affects you again that’s great i just know that appointment letters aren’t really used as evidence correct me if I’m wrong any one . 

    I was diagnosed with  anxiety , ocd , ptsd and psychosis I was diagnosed short term psychosis symptoms to start but now have been told my psychosis is long term now . 

    When I applied for pip I was under the crisis team and they supplied me with detailed care plans for me to send off which was great because it was really detailed from all the professionals in my care with not only what my mental illnesses are but how they affect my life day to day . Also my partner did write about how my life is daily . 

    If you have some one you live with who can write how your life is affected due to your disability and include pip descriptors that’s good evidence also . 

    Please don’t give up keep going xx 

  • cupcake88cupcake88 Member Posts: 956 Pioneering
    Supply as much information as you can and best of luck with it .   Are you  on any medication? Send a medication list over from your pharmacy ?

    I’m dreading my first pip review it’s all such a stressful situation I really hope you get pip . 


  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,644 Disability Gamechanger
    1 - yes you’re right. 

    2 - I wouldn’t bother. It’s a template letter and sometimes they simply can’t/don’t list all the evidence.

    3 - up to you but the better question to ask is what gap does your evidence fill? If you can’t answer that then get advice.
  • anxiousbirdanxiousbird Member Posts: 144 Courageous
    @cupcake88 I sent in detailed letters from my husband (carer ) and my mum (carer plus a medical doctor herself) about how my condition affects me daily. Sent in letter from my CBT therapist. Sent in letter from DVLA after having license revoked due to psychiatric illness, all my medical records and a cover letter myself. Filled in PIP form in detail giving real life examples. Even sent them screenshots of my Uber receipts for journeys which were 1 minute long (as a proof of how much I struggle walking outside), copies of my disability support I had in uni. I’m not taking medication at the moment because of a recent fear of new medicines. It just seems so cruel! I know how my life is affected by my illness, who in their right mind would waste a first class degree from UK top 3 university and CHOOSE to sit around at home, put in effort to claim PIP, only to get a few hundred pounds per month? Are they really that dumb to understand that? 

    Mike, I would have thought that the assessor probably just didn’t bother to mention all the evidence on the front page even though he did consider it all, but in my assessor’s report, in each section he has ONLY referred to the GP letter and has went on to say that no other professional input is there and not currently getting help with her issues etc etc so it’s reasonable to assume that her problems are not that bad. Which clearly tells me that he didn’t pay any attention to the evidence I sent. He didn’t even pay attention to the basic fact that I have finished a course of CBT (ran out of sessions and was asked to re-refer same day to add another set of sessions, which I did), was on my second course of CBT within weeks of the first course finishing, got referred to secondary care because my therapist told me my needs were beyond the scope of what primary care could provide. And the assessor has written in his report ‘only had a few sessions of CBT which have now finished’ and has gone on to conclude that this means that my problems must not be that bad!?! Twisting of facts at its best!

    Just feels like this massive mountain is in front of me which I have to climb, already feeling exhausted. But I really do want to take it to MR this time and not give up! 
  • kes2611kes2611 Member Posts: 118 Connected
    @cupcake88 Hi can i ask do u get mobility as well. Mine is based on MH as well,i like u go days without washing or changing clothes. I spend most days in bed as cant b botherrd. My friend comes over to check on me m bring me food to go in microwave. I cant use a cooker so just have microwave. I have slipped disc also, I cant walk v far m have to keep stopping cause my back hurts.I had my renew pip call last thurs n got text sat to say DWP had it.Rang yesterday n asked for copy.
  • cupcake88cupcake88 Member Posts: 956 Pioneering
    @anxiousbird wow that’s a lot of information you sent off . 
    I really wish you all the best . Sorry I can’t help to much with factual information but I’m thinking of you . Yes Please don’t give up keep going and will work out in the end I have faith that you will get pip . 

    I my self used to work a full time job I used to have a very good income I used to always be some one you would never see with out there hair and make up done .
    i haven’t done my make up in along  time I hardly brush my hair I hardly wash and I hardly change my clothes , I’m very over weight now as embarrassing as it is it’s the truth and I know a lot of people will be able to relate to me . 
    I remember saying that to my pip assessor I remember saying to her I want to die most weeks because of how iam the trauma I suffered has made me like this scared of my own shadow the door bell goes and I feel like Im in danger I’m scared of my own shadow . I’m so blessed and lucky to have the most amazing fiancé and dog who look after me . But I feel like I’m a child again most days mental illnesses has taken a lot from me I became mentally ill due to a traumatic time that took place in my mid 20s I’m in my early 30s now . 

    I find it completely humiliating that I have a mental health nurse and I hear voices and see things that are not there it’s very distressing.  Like any disability it completely takes over your life  . My partner pays all the bills as I can’t work I can’t get any other benefit because my partner works full time I couldn’t get the new style esa because I didn’t make enough national Insurance contributors like two years before because I wasn’t able to work I had like a little online shop making crochet things and home made cards that I did as and when but even that I can’t do any more . 

    So I get by on my pip in the sense that I can pay some money towards the food shop it makes me feel better that I’m contributing to the bills and it pays monthly for my meds and any other bits I need instead of my partner paying for every thing it’s given me a bit of independence back so I don’t have to completely rely on my partner . I worked for many years and then I realised I was going down hill mentally but I wasn’t sure Then i took really bad i felt my health declining of the past few years to a point when my mind completely went . So I know how much pip means to some one it’s just money it’s independence . Do you get Esa or any thing ? 


  • cupcake88cupcake88 Member Posts: 956 Pioneering
    @kes2611 hi there I get for both yes daily and mobility . My disabilities are all mental illnesses I don’t have any physical disabilities . Have you just applied for pip ? 
  • cupcake88cupcake88 Member Posts: 956 Pioneering
    @kes2611 oh I just saw you had your review ? How did it go was it your first review ? Do you currently get both daily living and mobility ? How long was your original award for ? I’m dreading my first review 
  • kes2611kes2611 Member Posts: 118 Connected
    @cupcake88 Have been on PIP ages. I get standard for both n hope for same outcome. Am also on ESA for life.My last review was 2016. Am waiting for copy of report n decision.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,644 Disability Gamechanger
    I think you’re seriously over thinking this. It’s an MR. More is less and microanalysis of letters etc. is a rabbit hole in which you will get lost badly. You’re working on an assumption that if they’d just read everything you’d have definitely qualified. Instead you need to view your evidence with a critical eye rather than theirs. Picking them apart won’t ever get you PIP.
  • berry123berry123 Member Posts: 256 Courageous
    Hi all I'm planning to send my MR next week waiting GP letter and a doctor friend letter, patient summary what else should I send any advice is appreciated.  Thanks
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,250 Pioneering
    The most important thing is that you have explained how your health conditions affect your ability to carry out the prescribed activities to the standard expected.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • berry123berry123 Member Posts: 256 Courageous
  • anxiousbirdanxiousbird Member Posts: 144 Courageous
    @cupcake88 that sounds so much like me! My mental health issues began 8 years back as well, had to defer uni entry two years because I couldn’t bring myself to start it. I used to be the ‘fashionable one’ in my group of friends lol, always made up. Always wanted to go out, I remember that even if mum was going to pick something up from somewhere I’d ask her if I could also come along; just any chance to go outside. And how suddenly all of this, I don’t even go sit in my own garden! 

    I don’t get ESA or anything like that, no. I’ve never worked (already had mental health issues when it came to uni/work) so I’m assuming I’m not eligible for it anyway! And yea only applying PIP because I’m tired of feeling worthless and such a big burden on my husband who’s currently earning for the both of us, managing house chores, being my carer, and always being the one who has to compromise. I’m amazed he hasn’t run away yet, so grateful to God for that! I know he really wants to have kids as well but we just can’t even think of it at the moment! 

    I’m very happy for you that atleast you do receive what you deserve! :) 
  • anxiousbirdanxiousbird Member Posts: 144 Courageous
    I think you’re seriously over thinking this. It’s an MR. More is less and microanalysis of letters etc. is a rabbit hole in which you will get lost badly. You’re working on an assumption that if they’d just read everything you’d have definitely qualified. Instead you need to view your evidence with a critical eye rather than theirs. Picking them apart won’t ever get you PIP.
    I’ve read my evidence again and again and honestly do think they’re good pieces of evidence if the DM looks at them with a logical and open mind! I’ve read case laws and the types of evidence judges used to make decisions and I have all of those! Plus my husband wrote a really detailed letter addressing each descriptor and giving examples as well, which I think is the best most detailed letter in my evidence pack. But I’m not sure how much importance would be given to that! 
  • anxiousbirdanxiousbird Member Posts: 144 Courageous
    berry123 said:
    Hi all I'm planning to send my MR next week waiting GP letter and a doctor friend letter, patient summary what else should I send any advice is appreciated.  Thanks
    I’ve seen people suggesting sending off your prescription lists as well. 
  • berry123berry123 Member Posts: 256 Courageous
    @anxiousbird they have that I'm challenging the dm decision what was said was lies and will take from there.  
  • kes2611kes2611 Member Posts: 118 Connected
    Got my report n wish i had nit asked for it,it v confusing. Does the DM have more access to info than assesor. I rang pip as really anxious now as think it gonna b stopped cause of report.pip said not to take 2 much notice of report as DM will look at past claims etc n he said this is why they dont like sending reports out. I told guy on phone that if pip stopped i mite end my life.Will still gave me ESA but will go down loads n that not the point.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,644 Disability Gamechanger
    I think you’re seriously over thinking this. It’s an MR. More is less and microanalysis of letters etc. is a rabbit hole in which you will get lost badly. You’re working on an assumption that if they’d just read everything you’d have definitely qualified. Instead you need to view your evidence with a critical eye rather than theirs. Picking them apart won’t ever get you PIP.
    I’ve read my evidence again and again and honestly do think they’re good pieces of evidence if the DM looks at them with a logical and open mind! I’ve read case laws and the types of evidence judges used to make decisions and I have all of those! Plus my husband wrote a really detailed letter addressing each descriptor and giving examples as well, which I think is the best most detailed letter in my evidence pack. But I’m not sure how much importance would be given to that! 
    The evidence addressed explicitly to the descriptors with examples is always the most important evidence. It would have been better coming directly from you. It worries me you start from thinking they haven’t an open mind. That again suggests you’re going into this with assumptions which don’t really stand up to analysis. The mind of a DM is made up by what you give them to work with. If you see no flaws in your evidence then I’d urge you to give it to someone who perhaps doesn’t know you. I’ve yet to read a claim without flaws.
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