When an existing award period ends and nothing in your condition has changed.... — Scope | Disability forum
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When an existing award period ends and nothing in your condition has changed....

Jona
Jona Member Posts: 30 Listener
edited March 10 in PIP, DLA, and AA
When an existing award is up for renewal and if anything ,youve gotten gradually worse(with my condition and age it seems to be the natural process of the condition....Would there be any reason for the new award to be any different to the first?

Comments

  • calcotti
    calcotti Member Posts: 2,996 Disability Gamechanger
    edited March 10
    The new award will be assessed on the impact of health on the prescribed activities at the time of the decision. The actual award will depend, in large measure, on how well the claimant describes the relevant impacts in their renewal submission.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • janer1967
    janer1967 Member Posts: 12,239 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi there 

    Awards are reviewed when current one is coming to an end and why it may seem logical that the same award is given this isnt the case

    You should treat the review as if it was a new application do not just put no change but explain in detail how your condition affects your daily living and mobility against the descriptors.  It will be a different person doing the assessment and more than likely a different DM 
    Here to help with my experience in hunan resources and employment rights 
  • Jona
    Jona Member Posts: 30 Listener
    So technically....if filled in as last time.,,,,logically it would follow, the outcome in a normal world, would be the same as the first award.
    I have heard of cases where the persons illness actually become worse and they ended up with standard rate,, down from Enhanced...and other odd anomalies regarding PIP assessments....Though anecdotal these cases are...they are verifiable...So it had me scratching my head as to how a rate could be changed if all things being equal...ie same descriptions and either no change from previous award or worse..  

  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,270 Disability Gamechanger
    As above really you need to treat a renewal the same as a new application, remember you will be assessed by someone different and the decision will be made by a different DWP DM, so as much detail as possible in relation to the PIP descriptors and any recent (if possible) and relevant (always) evidence.
    Offering PIP advice to people with epilepsy.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,452 Disability Gamechanger
    Jona said:
    So technically....if filled in as last time.,,,,logically it would follow, the outcome in a normal world, would be the same as the first award.
    I have heard of cases where the persons illness actually become worse and they ended up with standard rate,, down from Enhanced...and other odd anomalies regarding PIP assessments....Though anecdotal these cases are...they are verifiable...So it had me scratching my head as to how a rate could be changed if all things being equal...ie same descriptions and either no change from previous award or worse..  

    As @woodbine says, treat it as a new claim. However, it’s worth remembering that even an identical claim pack does not necessarily produce an identical decision. Logically, why wouldn’t? Just like in the rest of life two people can look at the same facts and come to different conclusions. Provided one of them is not Wednesbury unreasonable that’s neither illegal nor problematic other than for claimants. Essentially though that’s how all social security decisions have worked ever.
  • Jona
    Jona Member Posts: 30 Listener
    Jona said:
    So technically....if filled in as last time.,,,,logically it would follow, the outcome in a normal world, would be the same as the first award.
    I have heard of cases where the persons illness actually become worse and they ended up with standard rate,, down from Enhanced...and other odd anomalies regarding PIP assessments....Though anecdotal these cases are...they are verifiable...So it had me scratching my head as to how a rate could be changed if all things being equal...ie same descriptions and either no change from previous award or worse..  

    As @woodbine says, treat it as a new claim. However, it’s worth remembering that even an identical claim pack does not necessarily produce an identical decision. Logically, why wouldn’t? Just like in the rest of life two people can look at the same facts and come to different conclusions. Provided one of them is not Wednesbury unreasonable that’s neither illegal nor problematic other than for claimants. Essentially though that’s how all social security decisions have worked ever.
    What happens to a person , that goes from full enhanced mobility & care, and is not awarded again....and i know about mandatory & tribunals....and yet this persons symptoms are the same if not worse. They live alone ,no family etc. And now what was once deemed necessary help from dwp(past full enhanced award) now received nothing...What is that person supposed to do?.....All that you stated previously above, i fully understand...and that was what i was trying to suggest...that if a wrong decision is made, given all previous factual history and renewal claim all filled in correctly etc etc...Yet still, despite the obvious need, people are turned down.

    Its stated ,its not the diagnosis, but rather its the symptoms....Then, when giving the symptoms...how and why would they ever be contested?.....Just for clarification....there are no trick question in here, and i am very much less experienced of PIP than many here...So sum of my assumptions may agitate  .That certainly isnt my intention!.....but ive anecdotally heard off cases where people that have been awarded full enhanced...renew their claim and all symptoms have either remained the same...or worsened to then have minimal points or zero.....It doesnt make logical sense....Of course youlll get scammers...but so we dont get bogged down by that criteria....Given the massive amount of evidence people do send in along with verification of their illness/condition...(obviously a diagnosis matters as a genesis for the claim) but what is it, that these adjudicators  are disagreeing with?   if someone states, they are having diffculty in x,y and z...how on earth can they end up with zero points?
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,270 Disability Gamechanger
    A PIP claim is based not on medical conditions and not on symptoms but on care and/or mobility issues that arise when measured against the descriptors. What also matters is how well the application is completed and how much relevant (and also as recent as possible)evidence is sent to support the application.
    As has already been pointed out a renewal claim will be seen by a different HCP and DM, so two claims exactly the same word for word could and often will have different outcomes.
    That's why it's important to treat a renewal as a new application, so you give as much detail as possible.
    Offering PIP advice to people with epilepsy.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,452 Disability Gamechanger
    As @woodbine says, treat it as a new claim. However, it’s worth remembering that even an identical claim pack does not necessarily produce an identical decision. Logically, why wouldn’t? Just like in the rest of life two people can look at the same facts and come to different conclusions. Provided one of them is not Wednesbury unreasonable that’s neither illegal nor problematic other than for claimants. Essentially though that’s how all social security decisions have worked ever.
    It makes sense that someone can go from enhanced to zero for the reason I’ve described above. People genuinely struggle with the concept but it remains no less true. 

    Additionally people assume that as conditions; symptoms and functional limits are unchanged nothing else has changed but of course people are largely,and understandably, seldom capable of submitting identical information so, in fact, something changes with every new application. 

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