What benefits am I entitled to?
If this is your first visit, check out the community guide. You will have to Join us or Sign in before you can post.

I honestly thought id win my tribunal. And several Q.s

boristheblondeboristheblonde Posts: 65 Listener
Pip tribunal loss. (Latest i can ask for utt after requesting appeal refusal)?
Reappplied got low rate both 1 point off high rate mobility. 

I also have another tribunal to goto UC dating back to jan 2018. Coming up shortly.

From what i can see theres inconsistency 
1.Distances traveled walking.
2.Ability to repeadedly do these things above.
3.And apparently i was not in a flare up or had any by the looks
4.inconsistancy with medication requirments by myself and requested.
Level of pain & meds required or type.
I said i was keen to get some vallium because i could not sleep well at all 7am still crawling the walls with dicomfort and pain from very limited activity.
Lack of sleep due to pain manefesting flare ups as well as after previous injurys & distress.

5.The suggestion that my injurys healed, this incorrect as symptoms have been progressing.

My ability to move around regularly , & at all at times due to mechanical/painful symptoms ,
Ortha Doctors reports innacurate.
Hcp report being full of ****. 
Tribunals Q & A missleading. 

Probably missed something....


Q. Can i appeal tribunals utt refusal time deadline.
Q.how does one prove flare ups.
Q.how do you get a tribunal to realise they grabbed the wrong end of the stick..










Tagged:

Replies

  • boristheblondeboristheblonde Posts: 65 Listener
    Btw i dont think street vallium of 50/60mg per night alongside several beers and spliffs.
    I think in theyre mind id be taking normal dosage of doctor prescribed medication.
    Thats inconsistant and has led them to beleive otherwise
  • boristheblondeboristheblonde Posts: 65 Listener
    Is one able to contact the judge directly? Or open up dialogue? How can i possibly argue when they dont want to know.....

  • boristheblondeboristheblonde Posts: 65 Listener
    Have they come to a position of really needing to get tbeyre number lower.






  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,250 Pioneering
    Re ‘flare ups’ remember that decisions are based on how you are the majority of the time, not on how you are at your worst,
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • boristheblondeboristheblonde Posts: 65 Listener
    Have they come to a position of really needing to get tbeyre number lower.






    Over 70% is really quite a high number.
    Id be very supprised due to claimant error tribunals which have ended up losses which should have been wins being tossed in favour of dwp due to pure evil underhand tactics theyre using, 
    Painting false picture of claimants clearly entitled to support.
    Im no longer able to work..
    The dwp is a shambles.
    Sorry i can feel the anger building the more i look into it. 
    Please come back with something i can use to defend myself 
    I think im capable of getting this right 
    I have to for my own sanity.
    Its so degrading.




  • boristheblondeboristheblonde Posts: 65 Listener
    calcotti said:
    Re ‘flare ups’ remember that decisions are based on how you are the majority of the time, not on how you are at your worst,
    For me it comes and goes every few days generally comes when something happens knees gives or i do too much and aggravates.

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,644 Disability Gamechanger
    I’m afraid I struggled with the coherence of your posts and if they are representative of what was presented at appeal then so would a tribunal. A few points in response:

    1 - always a mistake to focus on the HCP report during a tribunal.
    2 - I don’t see how a tribunal can ask or answer “misleading” anything. You’re there. You have the opportunity to correct any misunderstandings.
    3 - as above, if you think the tribunal have the wrong end of the stick then you say so at the time and explain why. 
    4 - tribunals have zero interest in the numbers who qualify. It has no impact on what they do. 
    5 - your opportunity to present a case came and went with the appeal hearing. See 2 and 3 above. There is no opportunity to address a judge alone and what exactly would the point be? The judge didn’t make the decision. A panel of 3 made the decision not 1. 

    Taken together your comments suggest to me you weren’t really sure what your case was i.e. which points for which activities and why. You are crying out for representation. 
  • boristheblondeboristheblonde Posts: 65 Listener
    Well in reply to @mikehughescq.

    There were a few notes relating to hcp report being innacurate in submission.
    Also i didnt argue anything at the tribunal either. 
    Just answered there questions probably should have asked the panel a question or two, my mind doesnt work that fast.

    Had i of thought outside the box for each question they asked i would had more than one answer yet i failed to give more detail, just the side that would probably decline an award.
    I also felt pushed into saying i could in fact make a pan of veg regardless of how much it aggravates my condition, or the risks it posed.
    Also they didnt give me the chance really as they were onto the next question.
    Im really going to take my time with whatever comes up with the upcoming uc tribunal.
    Not everyone has the ability to think on theyre feet also i feel medication make me quite introvert.

    I had the telephone tribunal uc in january 2021 ajourned due to judge wanting to see most recent pip report. They already had the previous pip report of lies and tribunal loss. I summise they will question that against the non tribunal award of 0 points to current pip award of low rate.

    It did sound like the dwp person at the hearing was trying to actually give an award from his opening statement as they read the current pip awarded report out to the panel also suggesting i could not use a wheel chair either but sounding like he was trying to award something from 3 months before the pip award not from the start of my sicknotes, again im not sure though.

    Contacting the judge was simply to explain what i failed too at the ftt. 

    Were talking about nearly 2 years of out pip.. because of a terrible hcp assessment. Im reeling id like to make complaint about the hcp.









  • woodbinewoodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 4,534 Disability Gamechanger
    I'm not sure complaining about the HCP at this point is going to get you very far
    "Putting a child into care, isn't caring for a child" (T.Rhattigan)
  • janer1967janer1967 Member Posts: 11,205 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi 

    Complaining about the hcp wont get you an award and from what I read it doesnt really get you anywhere as when they look into it the assessor can never remember the individual assessment 
  • boristheblondeboristheblonde Posts: 65 Listener
    Do you think its because theyre simply overloaded, strange i recall i couldnt find a seat in the waiting room.
    So went to wait in my car...


    Even stranger that the report stated that i heard my name called in the waiting room 

  • boristheblondeboristheblonde Posts: 65 Listener
    The pip 0 point  report also stated i was well kemp.
    I recall the clothing i had on had holes all over them armpits & rips in my shorts
    But i was well dressed apparently. 
  • boristheblondeboristheblonde Posts: 65 Listener

    How to bring a complaint to the Independent Case Examiner??

    An option ?
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,644 Disability Gamechanger
    Well in reply to @mikehughescq.

    There were a few notes relating to hcp report being innacurate in submission.
    Also i didnt argue anything at the tribunal either. 
    Just answered there questions probably should have asked the panel a question or two, my mind doesnt work that fast.

    Had i of thought outside the box for each question they asked i would had more than one answer yet i failed to give more detail, just the side that would probably decline an award.
    I also felt pushed into saying i could in fact make a pan of veg regardless of how much it aggravates my condition, or the risks it posed.
    Also they didnt give me the chance really as they were onto the next question.
    Im really going to take my time with whatever comes up with the upcoming uc tribunal.
    Not everyone has the ability to think on theyre feet also i feel medication make me quite introvert.

    I had the telephone tribunal uc in january 2021 ajourned due to judge wanting to see most recent pip report. They already had the previous pip report of lies and tribunal loss. I summise they will question that against the non tribunal award of 0 points to current pip award of low rate.

    It did sound like the dwp person at the hearing was trying to actually give an award from his opening statement as they read the current pip awarded report out to the panel also suggesting i could not use a wheel chair either but sounding like he was trying to award something from 3 months before the pip award not from the start of my sicknotes, again im not sure though.

    Contacting the judge was simply to explain what i failed too at the ftt. 

    Were talking about nearly 2 years of out pip.. because of a terrible hcp assessment. Im reeling id like to make complaint about the hcp.

    To take your points in turn:

    - it’s perfectly okay for your mind to work differently to others. However, knowing that, that’s where competent representation comes in.
    - they would move through the questions fairly quickly as they don’t have all day fur a hearing. 8 to 10 cases in a day. You won’t get any more time at your UC appeal. Likely less. Other people manage this by either having a rep or putting in a written sub which deals with all key points in advance. Thus in the past 12 months I’ve had one 2 hour appeal and none of the others went beyond 10 minutes. The sub does the work.
    - see above re: meds, introversion etc. The answer remains the same. Representation and a written submission. 
    - DWP can’t award anything once an appeal is underway. They either fight the decision or concede in full. There’s nothing in between. Anything else is, to be blunt, totally in your head. 
    - far too late to take a complaint about the HCP and, to be honest, you’ve not really mentioned much which would suggest one would have been worthwhile even if it had been done in a timely manner.
    - ICE - LOL! One of the most complained about services and only relevant if a process wasn’t followed i.e. maladministration type complaints. Essentially your issue here is that you were underprepared for your appeal and don’t like the outcome. 

    I’m afraid in your case the wheels of justice have turned and come to a rest.
  • boristheblondeboristheblonde Posts: 65 Listener
    For the uc tribunal
    5k words sub
    Fingers crossed
    they got it last september.
    I wrote it lol
    Now im worried.
    I tried to explain things hopefully better.
    dont have a date yet i think its probably gonna be soon.
    Ive used much of the information ive read here and read quite a few tribunal reports. Using keywords from my issues and like " vrs secretary of state case numbers lcw pip dla esa 
    Found some usefull information" 
    I guess im just worrying...about nothing and something thats out of my control unless im on the ball on the day...
     
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,644 Disability Gamechanger
    5k words for a sub! Gulp.

    The longest sub I have written for a case in 35 years was around that length. 

    Most appeals centre on 3 issues at most and could be brought in somewhere between 400 and 2,000 words. A little perspective. My 5,000 word sub concerned an argument that unusually had 5 components; required extensive direct quotation of law and case law on a specialist area i.e. “special accommodation” and concerned 31 claimants, 62 benefit claims and was worth £1.2m in successful benefit awards once done. 

    Writing 5,000 words, reading UT reports and using specific phrases does not make a case.

    I’ll say it again. You need representation. Those three words are the only words which should now matter to you.


  • boristheblondeboristheblonde Posts: 65 Listener
    edited March 16
    Writing the truth instead of fabricating what actually is.
    Its 4500 word and most of it is directed at pages from the report which i also typed exaxtly what the assessor wrote. And directly replied to
    <moderator removed - personal attacks not permitted on community.  Please keep conversation on topic>

  • Cher_ScopeCher_Scope Posts: 4,071

    Scope community team

    edited March 16
    @boristheblonde I've edited your last posts to remove personal comments aimed at another member.  Please remember to keep conversation about the topic and not the person.  Good luck with your tribunal and to access representation as advised, I'd recommend visiting Advice Local (entering your postcode and selecting 'Welfare Benefits' from the drop down list) to find free independent organisations close to where you live.  
    Online Community Co-ordinator

    Want to tell us about your experience on the online community?  Talk to our chatbot and let us know.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,644 Disability Gamechanger
    edited March 16
    There are dozens of threads on this site suggesting the worst thing to do at an appeal is concentrate on the HCP report. One of your panel members is a medical professional. Taking the approach you suggest will likely take you from kicking at an open door to losing one of the three people making your decision before you've even got off the ground. It is not condescending to point that out. It is simply a known fact. You won't find a single poster on here, or indeed anywhere, who can demonstrate irrefutably that they won their appeal solely because they destroyed a HCP report. It simply does not happen. You have to have a lot more than that. Lots will come forward and say that's definitely why they won their appeal. However, if they won their appeal, they'll only have a summary decision which doesn't spell out detailed reasons and so, essentially, they're guessing. 

    Tribunals will nod their head at you literally and metaphorically when you bang on about it but only because they're generally, but not always, too polite to say "for goodness sake shut up about the report, we already accept it's not great because most of them are not great BUT where is YOUR evidence of entitlement."

    There are also literally dozens of threads on this site where it's suggested you need to concentrate on the strengths and weaknesses of YOUR evidence not the weaknesses of their evidence. Discrediting a HCP report does just that. It lowers its credibility as evidence. However, if your evidence is somewhere between rubbish and non-existent then it will all have been for nothing as their evidence will still be stronger. It is not condescending to point that out. 

    And no, I long ago moved from forensic analysis of HCP reports onto looking at what the case for qualification was. They are two different things. 

    Your responses are a fine example of someone who believes that reps don't bring that much to the table. With the help of a few buddies online and a bit of reading you can do what we do and come out with just as good an outcome if not better. What you appear to have done is pick out those bits of advice which suited the approach you were going to take regardless of what anyone said. Good advice often involves hearing stuff you don't want to hear. It's not condescending. It's just people bringing their experience and knowledge to bear for your benefit. If you choose to believe that you still know better then good luck to you. Away from online world advisers often tire of claimants who have selective hearing. 

    Whilst not everyone needs representation some people patently do. I have rarely put those words about needing representation in bold. I'm not here to advocate for my profession. You may want to dwell on why I did in this instance. Time will, as they say, show the wiser. 

    My participation in this is now at an end as I will not respond further to posters who choose to address the poster not the post and fail to resist personal comment. 
  • boristheblondeboristheblonde Posts: 65 Listener
    Ok so had my telephone tribunal 2 days ago.
    over 1.5 hours it lasted.
    result in today 

    won lcw from zero points to 15 across two descriptors so no extra money 
    with support I would have thought I’d get a few more points and would have gotten lcwra which indeed would have been a great help.
    none the less I feel happy that I’m no longer being pressured to get work until I can get my health in a better condition and hopefully return to work in the future.
    Almost 4 years I’ve been living off nothing sold all my work tools etc possession etc.
    but mentally I feel in a better place.
    thanks to all on here

    3 cheers for scope and helpful users 

    hip hip

  • boristheblondeboristheblonde Posts: 65 Listener
    Actually paragraph 4 schedule 9 applied.
    remmitted to dwp for decision??
  • Caz_AlumniCaz_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 626 Pioneering
    Hi @boristheblonde

    Just getting in touch to acknowledge your post and see how you're getting on?

    Firstly, 'Hip Hip...Hooray!' ;) Thought I would get that in to start off with, thank you!

    Also, it sounds like you're quite pleased with the outcome of your tribunal? Is that right? Though I've spotted that you've also said that your claim has now been remitted back to DWP for a decision?

    Just to check then, were you looking to get any further guidance in respect of that? And is there anything else that you would like to ask our community members? If so, do you want to drop us another line and let us know how we can help? :)

    Online Community Coordinator (she/her)

    Want to give us feedback? Complete our feedback form now.
  • boristheblondeboristheblonde Posts: 65 Listener
    Caz_Scope 
    yes I'm pleased that its over but I feel somethings not quite right the more I analyse it.
    so maybe its just beginning......

    but the tribunal noted in theyre decision notice:(skipping my details dates etc):
    1.
    2.
    3. Mr boris has limited capability of work
    4.scored 15 points from schedule 6 (9 points mobilising  6 points reaching
    5.no schedule 7 descriptor applied.par 4 sched 9 did not apply
    6 reason conditions of described bundle mr boris is significantly limited in particular the above descriptors.
    7. blah blah
    8remitted to soc to make final decision
    9no reccommendation when to reassess
    10

    i think that means lcw awrded?


Sign in or join us to comment.