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Telephone assessment

dfs050365dfs050365 Member Posts: 36 Listener
edited April 5 in PIP, DLA and AA
I can walk about 30m and was asked about planning a journey, the interviewer made it sound like planning in the cognitive sense. It does not take a genius to work out that if you cant get to within 30m of your destination you simply are not getring there.
As I am not psychic I cannot precict parking and so planning any journey is impossible. 
Furthermore, although the DWP take part in the motobility scheme if you drive it is detremental to your claim. I went to five seperate tribunal hearings and was eventually awarded the higher rate for mobility.
At my first assessment after the tribunal, wlhich was carried about by some obnoxious ambulance driver, my benefit was reduced to the lower rate. I put in a mandatory reconsideration which is a total waste of time as I was expected to get records from medical people, which needs applying for in writing and they have 30 days to respond.
I have put in two complaints which have both been ignored. The whole thing has left me depressed and frustrated and as far I am concerned the DWP are a disgrace



Replies

  • MarkN88MarkN88 Member Posts: 1,302 Pioneering
    dfs050365 said:
    by some obnoxious ambulance driver

    Sorry but, it would have been a fully qualified paramedic and it’s unfair to down play that, even if you don’t agree with what was said or who carried out your assessment. 

    They are the frontline and save lives and do more than drive an ambulance. 
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,235 Pioneering
    edited April 5
    dfs050365 said:
    I can walk about 30m and was asked about planning a journey, the interviewer made it sound like planning in the cognitive sense. 

    That is what the planning a journey question is about.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/918329/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-assessment-criteria.pdf
    This activity is designed for limitations on mobility deriving from mental health, cognitive and sensory impairments, whereas activity 12 is generally designed for limitations from physical problems.
    The moving around question (activity 12) deal with the act of walking.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,637 Disability Gamechanger
    Always a good idea to get to grips with the basics of PIP itself before you tar those charged with the administration of it with the same brush. Frankly, going to 5 appears is not unlucky. It’s not getting to grips with the basics and then doing the same thing each time but somehow expecting a different outcome. 

    Sorry if these were not the responses you were expecting from your first post. 
  • Ross_ScopeRoss_Scope Posts: 4,187

    Scope community team

    Hello and welcome to the community @dfs050365, glad you've joined us.

    I'm sorry to read that you weren't happy with your claim experience.

    As touched on by others, the different questions can have very specific purposes, and I admit that it isn't always clear what is being asked of you, which can make it difficult to answer.
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  • dfs050365dfs050365 Member Posts: 36 Listener
     Yep I know the guy was a paramedic, but to qualify I had to convince a judge, doctor and disability specialist.
    If any of you have a tribunal take representation as the way you are treated is poles apart. The fact I attended was seen as detrimental to my mobility claim,  also I was critizised for reading legislation.
    These hearings are a joke and I was not given the opportunity to have my say, yet I was accused of contradicting myself.
    So how come in order to qualify I had to go to some lengths, yet first opportunity some guy on leave from the NHS had the authority to take money from me.
    I know he was on leave because he attended my house when I needed an ambulance.So my point is the deck is stacked and they are looking not to pay rather than whether your claim is legit.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,637 Disability Gamechanger
    dfs050365 said:

    As I am not psychic I cannot precict parking and so planning any journey is impossible. 
    Furthermore, although the DWP take part in the motobility scheme if you drive it is detremental to your claim. I went to five seperate tribunal hearings and was eventually awarded the higher rate for mobility.
    At my first assessment after the tribunal, wlhich was carried about by some obnoxious ambulance driver, my benefit was reduced to the lower rate. I put in a mandatory reconsideration which is a total waste of time as I was expected to get records from medical people, which needs applying for in writing and they have 30 days to respond.
    I have put in two complaints which have both been ignored. The whole thing has left me depressed and frustrated and as far I am concerned the DWP are a disgrace

    As per my previous post your issue is that you’ve not got to grips with the basics. 

    Predicting parking has zilch to do with PIP. You’ve decided how you want to interpret the regs rather than reading them as they are. 

    Driving is not detrimental to a claim at all unless it clearly suggests you can reliably perform points scoring activities of daily living. Loads of case law on the point. 

    There is no expectation on what evidence you put in for an MR. It’s a reconsideration i.e. you can ask them to look at the existing evidence again and don’t have to add anything. 
    dfs050365 said:
     Yep I know the guy was a paramedic, but to qualify I had to convince a judge, doctor and disability specialist.
    If any of you have a tribunal take representation as the way you are treated is poles apart. The fact I attended was seen as detrimental to my mobility claim,  also I was critizised for reading legislation.
    These hearings are a joke and I was not given the opportunity to have my say, yet I was accused of contradicting myself.
    So how come in order to qualify I had to go to some lengths, yet first opportunity some guy on leave from the NHS had the authority to take money from me.
    I know he was on leave because he attended my house when I needed an ambulance.So my point is the deck is stacked and they are looking not to pay rather than whether your claim is legit.
    There is no disability specialist on a tribunal. They are a person with experience of disability. They could be a social worker, a carer, a WRO, a disabled person. Pretty much anyone.

    I very much doubt you were criticised for reading legislation. No tribunal would do that. They would actively welcome that. However, the interpretations you’ve posted here suggest you have no real idea how the legislation ought to be interpreted. They may well have rightly pointed that out. A very different thing although there. 

    You have no idea about your paramedic and your starting assumption that none of these people are as bright as you really isn’t going to help you move this forward. Most people who work as HCPs do so because they can’t actually get by on an NHS salary and often only work PT for them. You’ll also do well to find anyone I’m as good a position as a paramedic to comment on functional impairment. The nature of the role exposes them to a huge range of ill health and a good understanding of the consequences. They also won’t have taken any money off you. They do no more than make a recommendation. Your issue is with the DWP. That would then likely explain why your two HCP complaints have gone nowhere. 

    The thing you’re lacking here appears to be basic advice and representation. 
  • dfs050365dfs050365 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    Can anybody tell me why would planning a journey be a question of mental capability. Who fancies a debate as to whether Dr Stephem Hawkins was disabled as he would not be entitled to higher rate mobility. He was able to plan a journey, whether he could actually get there is apparently irrelevant.
    Many thanks

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,637 Disability Gamechanger
    There is nothing to debate. Planning is a plain English word which isn’t defined in the legislation or case law and is therefore given its plain English meaning. I’ve generally found it very hard to plan anything without using my cognition. 

    Stephen Hawking would be awarded 12 points under 2f because he could not stand and move 1m. 

    Anything else?

    I strongly recommend reading my earlier post again. Read the regs as they are not as you wish them to be. 
  • dfs050365dfs050365 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    In order to claim your entitlement you will need representation, it is a tricky business. Trust none of them as they lie and remember the information you provide should be for your worst days.
    Me personally, I was asked if I consider committing suicide, to which I replied yes. I started to cry as I felt ashamed. Yet the assessor made no reference to this.
    I ask the question, are assessors paid a bonus for the people whose entitlement they rip off?
    Furthermore, mandatory reconsiderations. We the disabled are expected to gather evidence to prove our case. Yet if you want access to your medical records you will have to write and they have 30 days to reply. Chances are you will run out of time. 
    I cant get my doctor to write on my behalf, today I have a blood test with the nurse so I am planning a sit in at my surgery so I expect to be arrested.
  • dfs050365dfs050365 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    That letter is a matter of record as it was the response from my tribunal, I believe I have a copy. Give me a bit of time and i will post it for you. How do you like dem apples. It is a matter of public record if you think about it.
  • dfs050365dfs050365 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    Dr Stephen Hawkins could plan a journey but could he get there. I think not
  • Caz_AlumniCaz_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 626 Pioneering
    edited April 6
    HI @dfs050365

    How are doing today? I just spotted that you're planning to post a copy of your tribunal letter. 

    Before you do that, please could I ask that you make sure that you do not include any personal, identifying details in any images that you upload to the community - for example, your full name, address, email address DOB, etc., or the full names of any other individuals who might be referred to in your paperwork. Please note that this would be in breach of our community guidelines. You are welcome to upload copies of your documents if you would like to provide our other members with some further information, but you will need to ensure that all identifying personal details are not visible or that these have been redacted. Hope that's all clear - and thank you very much in advance.

    Moving on from that point, I also wanted to say hello from me and a big warm welcome to community. Plus, I am very sorry to hear that you're experiencing issues with your PIP claim and that this is causing you some distress. 

    Last of all, please do know that we are here to help where we can. So, do please keep talking to us about this and we shall see what additional support we can offer to you. 
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  • dfs050365dfs050365 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    Listen what I am wroting is just what happened to me. I joined up in the hope of getting some help because to be honest im finding it hard. Its not Ripleys Belive It Or Not. What I have posted is what happened to me.
    It is irrelevant as to the definition of this or that, in the real world disabled people are receiving short shrift.
    Sorry mate,nobody cares and if you want your entitle
  • dfs050365dfs050365 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    Getting old, sry last post was a mistake, its incomplete. 
  • dfs050365dfs050365 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    So is planning a journey a real world thing or cognitive. We have sat navs  which tell me how to get from door to door. Yet I still cant visit my sister because my journey includes parking, that I cant plan for. So nò I cant plan a journey
  • Caz_AlumniCaz_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 626 Pioneering
    edited April 7
    Just to follow up on this with you @dfs050365.

    We're very sorry to hear about your difficulties with the process of claiming PIP and progressing your claim through the tribunal. And I can very genuinely say that the frustration you're feeling is something that many of our community members will be able to relate to. 

    I also wanted to check again with where exactly you're up to on this? I see from your original post that you've already submitted some follow-up complaints. Have you taken any additional steps or sought any further advice about your current position?

    If not, then as some of our community members have suggested, a possible next step would be to seek out some further advice and representation. In that respect, AdviceLocal would be a good starting-point to try and find some local support and practical guidance.

    Plus, you're very welcome to keep talking to us on here and we'll do our best to support you through the process as well. 

    Hope that helps to address some of your concerns and the frustration that you're feeling @dfs050365?
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  • dfs050365dfs050365 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    Many thanks. I appreciate the feedback and I will block out the appropriate info. Ttfn
  • lisabrazil80lisabrazil80 Member Posts: 94 Connected
     My pip end on 27march 21 I  had my fone assistant  on 31 march 2021 wen should I call them  to see did I get win back my pip review  ent one else got the pip back on fone assignment 
  • dfs050365dfs050365 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    Out of interest,  letters from the tribunal, would the DWP have a copy and am I entitled to it.
    Another thing, Stephen Hawkins would have been awarded 16 points because he couldnt walk 30m and 16 points because he couldnt move from one chair to another. The points needed for full mobility was 15.
    There was a form online that laid it all out, I think it was for cerebal palsy on www.gov.uk. I will endeavour to find it
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,637 Disability Gamechanger
    edited April 6
    Allowing myself a deep sigh before typing this. Been here before. We'll no doubt go here again. One point at a time then.
    dfs050365 said:
    In order to claim your entitlement you will need representation, it is a tricky business. 
    I am a rep. You do not need a rep. in most cases to get PIP. Most people get PIP without any help whatsoever and without supporting medical evidence as the best evidence is almost always anecdotal. There are exceptions to both of the above. You are likely one. 
    dfs050365 said:
    Trust none of them as they lie
    Nope. This has been done to death. They may get things factually incorrect but you cannot legally prove a lie unless you can get inside their heads and you will be laughed at if you try to make this case anywhere down the line. 
    dfs050365 said:
    remember the information you provide should be for your worst days.
    I think you probably need to think very carefully before you respond to all of this but this one in particular.

    This is the oldest inaccurate information in the book. It's been circulating amongst claimants for years and it is shockingly bad and wholly incorrect advice. Presenting only what you are like on your worst days is fraud. There have been, as I have said many many times on here, two known such prosecutions. Don't know the outcome on one but the other was successful and rightly so. Recommending people act fraudulently in respect of any claim is a breach of the terms of this site and wholly incorrect advice likely to land you in some bother all round really. 

    PIP (nor indeed DLA or AA) is not about worst days. It is about the ability to perform points scoring activities reliably. You may want to read regs 4 and 7.
    dfs050365 said:
    I ask the question, are assessors paid a bonus for the people whose entitlement they rip off?
    Otherwise known as the "I have been on Facebook and believe any old s***e that the well informed patrons of that well known wild west of advice tell me". 

    No, HCPs do not get and never have gotten any such bonuses. A particularly stupid question because of course, firstly, they make a recommendation. They do not make the decision and, secondly, if such a bonus were to exist then surely the stats would reflect more recommendations to reject than award and yet... the exact opposite is true. 
    dfs050365 said:
    Furthermore, mandatory reconsiderations. We the disabled are expected to gather evidence to prove our case. 
    Nope. You the claimant are expected to get your ducks in a row evidence wise at the claim stage. A mandatory reconsideration is just that. A reconsideration. Whilst DWP continue to ask if you have new evidence and continue to suggest right up to tribunal submissions that you cannot possibly succeed without said new evidence, there is not and never has been any such requirement. The clue? Reconsider. Look again at what you already have. Oh yeah, and the law, case law and guidance, which also make it crystal clear that, whilst they'll consider anything extra you want to add, there's no obligation to add or obtain evidence at all. MR is essentially a random process as the success rate bears out. However, anecdotally as many are awarded on the back of no new evidence at all as require some piece of wonder to swivel heads. 
    dfs050365 said:
    Yet if you want access to your medical records you will have to write and they have 30 days to reply. Chances are you will run out of time. 
    I cant get my doctor to write on my behalf, today I have a blood test with the nurse so I am planning a sit in at my surgery so I expect to be arrested.
    You have one month to submit an MR but up to 13 months in total. If 13 months isn't enough you're probably not really trying. As medical records are now free and often electronically transferable even less excuse. 

    However, what are medical records going to do for an MR? It's very rare indeed that a diagnosis is in dispute? You should have listed all your meds and treatments and surgeries in your PIP 2. A repetition of that is irrelevant given that the burden of proof is simply "on the balance of probabilities". Generally speaking the only things revealed by your medical records are likely to your detriment. 
    dfs050365 said:
    Dr Stephen Hawkins could plan a journey but could he get there. I think not
    Possibly why I've already pointed out he scores 12 points under a different descriptor. 
    dfs050365 said:
    It is irrelevant as to the definition of this or that, in the real world disabled people are receiving short shrift.
    No, actually the single most relevant thing you need are definitions of terms. Without that you are stranded and making long posts to no great purpose. Plenty of help here but you have to want to read it and take it on board. Maybe start with https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system or https://pipinfo.net/. If you feel that's beyond you or of no interest to you but you want PIP then... you need a rep. 
    dfs050365 said:
    So is planning a journey a real world thing or cognitive. We have sat navs  which tell me how to get from door to door. Yet I still cant visit my sister because my journey includes parking, that I cant plan for. So nò I cant plan a journey
    The problem here is that you're making a distinction which doesn't exist. There's no distinction between cognition and real world to be made. Planning is clearly a cognitive activity and no-one in the real world plans anything without using their cognition. 

    Your journey does not include parking. Parking is not relevant. Planning is planning a route from a to b and following is undertaking that journey from a to b. No more complex than that really. "I might not be able to park" is not part of planning any more than "I best not go cos I might not be able to eat cos my sister might be out". The test is one of reliability not a specific journey you want to cite to prove a point. Mobility is about your personal mobility and not that of the thing you happen to be travelling in. 
    dfs050365 said:
    Out of interest,  letters from the tribunal, would the DWP have a copy and am I entitled to it.
    This depends on where an appeal is up to. Anything which forms part of the appeal papers would be copied to all parties to the proceedings and that would include DWP. A tribunal decision cannot be effective unless its relayed to the people expected to appeal or implement it i.e. DWP.
    dfs050365 said:
    Another thing, Stephen Hawkins would have been awarded 16 points because he couldnt walk 30m and 16 points because he couldnt move from one chair to another. The points needed for full mobility was 15.
    There was a form online that laid it all out, I think it was for cerebal palsy on www.gov.uk. I will endeavour to find it
    There is no 16 points here and I have literally no clue how a chair comes into PIP mobility at all. If you want strict accuracy then its 24 points for 1f and 2f. Look them up. 

    As @Caz_Scope has observed you need advice and representation. I will repeat what I said earlier in a slightly different form. There is nothing wrong with being aggrieved about a PIP outcome. However, there is everything wrong with being aggrieved when you haven't really got to grips with even the most basic elements of what the benefit is about; how you qualify etc. 

    So many parts of your posts are so off beam it's tempting to leave well alone. However, your posts literally scream that you are the definitive person who will get nowhere unless you are assisted by competent advice and representation. Rather than challenging people here and especially rather than giving them advice to act in a potentially fraudulent manner, I suggest you make seeing that advice your priority well ahead of anything else. 
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,235 Pioneering
    dfs050365 said:
    Out of interest,  letters from the tribunal, would the DWP have a copy and am I entitled to it.
    Another thing, Stephen Hawkins would have been awarded 16 points because he couldnt walk 30m and 16 points because he couldnt move from one chair to another. The points needed for full mobility was 15.
    There was a form online that laid it all out, I think it was for cerebal palsy on www.gov.uk. I will endeavour to find it
    You are confusing PIP with the Work capability assessment for ESA/UC. Different assessment criteria.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,637 Disability Gamechanger
    Not the least of what’s being confused here I think.
  • dfs050365dfs050365 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    edited April 7
    (Removed by moderator, personal comment towards another member)
  • dfs050365dfs050365 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    Instead of running me down tell us what we should be doing. People are being seen off because they are unfamiliar with how the system works. Contrary to what you may think im not confused, lying or gaining a penny for my comments.
  • dfs050365dfs050365 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    edited April 7
    (Removed by moderator for being a personal, provoking comment towards another member)
  • dfs050365dfs050365 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    edited April 7
    (Removed by moderator for being a personal, provoking comment towards another member)
  • dfs050365dfs050365 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    Hey Mike my letter I cant find, is a replacement copy obtainable. Say something useful, I really would like you all to see it because it proves which way the wind is blowing.

  • dfs050365dfs050365 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    Sorry but this has been dragging on since 2013 and I have been let down badly, I know of many other people who have received similar treatment.
    Plus its not relevant what you think or dont think, the truth does not require your believe to be the truth.

  • dfs050365dfs050365 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    My spelling is getting bad, sorry friends
  • Caz_AlumniCaz_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 626 Pioneering
    edited April 8
    @dfs050365

    If you don't mind, I'm just going to jump in here as I can see that this conversation is taking a turn in the wrong direction and for your sake, as much as everyone else's, we would really like to try and avoid that if we can. 

    Just to say that we really do empathise with you feeling let down by the system, and we want to try and help you with all of your queries. As you know, the online community's focus is on providing support - and that includes the support and advice that is provided by our users as well. But given the nature of the online space that we occupy, sometimes our messages of support are not always as well-conveyed as they might be and so they can be open to different interpretations. I hope you can see how that might happen? 

    Also, just to make you aware that we've removed a couple of your posts that we deemed to be personal attacks and so as to avoid this continuing any further. Please could we take the opportunity to remind everyone to stick to the Online Community Guidelines and can all users do their best to continue this conversation on an amicable note. That means being respectful, civil, and not engaging in any negative comments that are directed specifically at other users. 

    Lastly, given your current difficulties with this, then we would really recommend that you consider getting some professional support. I wonder therefore - would you be inclined to look for specialist advice in your area via AdviceLocal? [edited to remove incorrect link] Perhaps they could provide you with the assistance you are looking for dfs050365?
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  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 8,002

    Scope community team

    edited April 8
    I've made the decision to keep this thread closed and have removed a number of posts either for breaches of the community guidelines or because they were no longer relevant to the remaining conversation.

    @dfs050365, I think many of us can understand your frustration at the system and it is your right of course to express said frustration. However, when that escalates to personal attacks upon other members, this will not be tolerated.

    If you are still in need of help with your PIP claim, it may be time to consider finding a representative. You can find out what's available at Advicelocal.

    I also think it's important for us all to remember that when a person is in the middle of a claim it can be very difficult to be objective about the process or its technicalities and emotions are often heightened. This is never an excuse for rudeness, but it should be considered that a person is often unlikely to be able to receive information without first having the opportunity to express their frustration, especially if they feel their frustrations are being ignored. I know that is certainly the case for me.
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This discussion has been closed.