nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

We want to hear from you: please tell us about your experience of the online community.

Hi, my name is caretaker! I have arthritis, and am looking for advice on applying for PIP

caretaker

Hi Guys,
New to the forum and i am here for help and advice, if anyone can advise on the Arthritis illness i have , which i have received the Pip link to fill in online. I am in the process of applying the PIP and need help how to go about it, what to write how to write in a correct manner, as i might explain in a way which may not be acceptable to the Pip assessor, as it all how you phrase your words.

Really help if anyone can help and advice.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

janer1967

Hi and welcome

There is no right way to word an application

You should give 2 real examples of what happens when you try and do each task . How you do it do you need any aids or support. Who helps you . If you cant do it why not , can you do it safely , repeatedly, and reliably . What are the consequences of doing it eg can't do anything for rest of day after showering due to pain and fatigue

There is lots of info on here in our pip section

Hope this helps

caretaker

Thanks Jane for your reply.

I will check the Pip section on this scope website.

Tori_Scope

Hi @caretaker

Welcome to the community. Just to supplement what Janer1967 has said:

You can familiarise yourself with the PIP descriptors on pipinfo.net
You can read about what it means to be able to do something 'reliably, in a timely fashion, repeatedly and safely', as well as some other additional information, at the bottom of this page on the Benefits and Work website

caretaker

Thank you all of you guys who have replied on this post.

Once i filled in , i will post it here for your comments and review.

Leigh14

Username_removed said:

Maybe start at https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/56365/pip-form-filling#latest

Hi Mike. Just looked through info on form (too late for me, as already done mine back in Jan) I will be having telephone assessment in two weeks, and was wondering if you had any pointers for that please.

Leigh14

woodbine said:

As far as the telephone assessment goes don't let them force you to make yes or no answers, try and be more specific, also make a list of points that you want to get across and if you have a copy of the application have a good read of it the day before, and if it's your mobile they are calling make sure its fully charged.
Good luck, let us know how it goes.

Thankyou woodbine. I shall start making a list of things. After reading some comments on here regarding assessments, I’m more worried than I thought I would be.

caretaker

I have filled in the form, but i still need to tweak the wording and write medication and mg and how often i take.

i hope this helps someone and maybe someone might make my correction here , if i have not worded correctly or described.

Check your answers: about your health

left ankle pain - Knee pains- Body aching

Condition or disability

left ankle pain - Knee pains- Body aching
Approximate start date: 2017

Change left ankle pain - Knee pains- Body aching

About this condition or disability

I was referred to x-ray, blood test, and physiotherapy. I was still in pain and was referred to pain management Consultant . I am still taking pain medication (What pain medication) for ankle pain and body pains as an when needed. Diagnosed as osteoarthritis. the pain medication makes me feel drowsy and other side effects with the medication (what are the other side effects, e.g. nausea).

Change was referred to x-ray, blood test, and physiotherapy. I was still in pain and was referred to pain management Consultant . I am still taking pain medication (list exactly which medications you are still taking) for ankle pain and body pains as an when needed. Diagnosed as osteoarthritis. the pain medication makes me feel drowsy and other side effects with the medication.

pain in both knees

Remove pain in both knees

Condition or disability

pain in both knees
Approximate start date: 4 years ago

Change pain in both knees

About this condition or disability

x-ray and physio for the knees to improve strength. put on pain medication (list medication). diagnosed as osteoarthritis.

Changexray and physio for the knees to improve strength. put on pain medication. diagnosed as osteoarthritis.

pain in right shoulder

Remove pain in right shoulder

Condition or disability

pain in right shoulder
Approximate start date: 4 years ago

Change pain in right shoulder

About this condition or disability

physio for the shoulder and referred to pain management

Changephysio for the shoulder and referred to pain management

lower back pain and just below left buttock

Remove lower back pain and just below left buttock

Condition or disability

lower back pain and just below left buttock
Approximate start date: 3 years ago

Change lower back pain and just below left buttock

About this condition or disability

x ray and c t scan 2 years ago for the lower back - degeneration of the disc.

on pain management

Changex ray and c t scan 2 years ago for the lower back - degeneration of the disc. on pain management

pain, stiffness in hands and fingers.

Remove pain, stiffness in hands and fingers.

Condition or disability

pain, stiffness in hands and fingers.
Approximate start date: 1 year ago

Change pain, stiffness in hands and fingers.

About this condition or disability

on pain medication. keep hands warm and rest.

Change on pain medication. keep hands warm and rest.

Pain on left feet under the heel and left toes and fingers.

Remove Pain on left feet under the heel and left toes and fingers.

Condition or disability

Pain on left feet under the heel and left toes and fingers.
Approximate start date: 2019

Change Pain on left feet under the heel and left toes and fingers.

About this condition or disability

Pain killers, applying ointment (Give name of ointment), Physiotherapist, Diagnosed Osteoarthritis.

Change Pain killers, applying ointment, Physiotherapist, Diagnosed Osteoarthritis.

Left wrist had injury, has gone weak and having constant pain on the joint.

Remove Left wrist had injury, has gone weak and having constant pain on the joint.

Condition or disability

Left wrist had injury, has gone weak and having constant pain on the joint.
Approximate start date: Physiotherapy, pain killers, wrist support Approximate date 2018

Change Left wrist had injury, has gone weak and having constant pain on the joint.

About this condition or disability

I take pain killers and ointment .

Change take pain killers and ointment .

Anxiety

Remove Anxiety

Condition or disability

Anxiety
Approximate start date: Approximate date 2019

Change Anxiety

About this condition or disability

Not had treatment, where i pick up thing and i just push it away or if i have to put in place i push it away, i don’t know what is called nerve system or Huntington Disease type (Do you have tremors?). Difficulty concentrating and memory lapses.

check your answers: about your health professionals

Are there any health professionals that you would like to tell us about?

Yes

ChangehealthProfessionals

Dr Smith

Details

Check your answers: preparing food

Does your condition affect you preparing food, or prevent you from doing so?

Yes

ChangepreparingFood

Difficulties you have with preparing food and how you manage them

I have difficulty standing or sitting for any period of time and the pain and stiffness gets worse if I sit for any period of time. I have to shift position to help ease the pain. this impacts on how long it will take to do the task in making the meal. I find it difficult to cut and peel vegetables. my hands involuntary shake and I am at risk of cutting myself. My wife makes my meals. she doesn't like me helping her because because I drop things and make a mess and it takes longer to prepare the meal. I have dropped my prepared meals when taking them from the kitchen to the table. if I was to make a whole meal by my self it would take a very long time and I would struggle to cut, peel chop and stir the pot. I would also struggle to move the pot from the hob, cooking a whole meal would be leave me a lot of pain and I am at risk of hurting my self as my hands shake and I cannot hold heavy items.
I am at risk of injury like burning or scalding when carrying a hot pan from the stove to the table. I can drop plates of food, which means I have to start again. If I’m too tired to do that, I do not eat.
I need supervision or assistance to either prepare or cook a simple meal most of the time because my condition means I cannot hold kitchen utensils, plates or pans. If I try to pick up something, I will drop it. I once burnt myself and damaged appliances.

Here consider something call the reliability criteria which assess if you can do an activity:

Safely
In a reasonable time frame
To an acceptable standard
Repeatedly

You should use these terms throughout the form so as to show the DWP where you struggle.

Do you use aids/appliances – e.g. adapted cutlery, in addition to support from another person.

ChangepreparingFoodDetails

Confirm and save

Check your answers: eating and drinking

Does your condition affect you eating and drinking?

Yes

ChangeeatingDrinking

Do you use a feeding tube or similar device to eat or drink?

ChangefeedingTube

Difficulties you have with eating and drinking and how you manage them

Due to the pain in my hands and shaking I find it difficult to hold knife and fork. I eat most of meals with my hands. If it is tough food that needs cutting up my wife cuts it up for me. When I eat I drop a lot of food on myself, my wife help me clean up.

ChangeeatingDrinkingDetails

Confirm and save

Check your answers: managing treatments

Does your condition affect you managing your treatments?

Yes

ChangemanagingTreatments

Difficulties you have with monitoring changes in your health condition or disability and taking medication, and how you manage them

My partner helps to apply medication on the pain area on the ankle and under the feet area.
she reminds me to take medication regularly. (Is this daily, more than once a day?

ChangemanagingTreatmentsDetails

Therapies you take at home that need the help of another person

I used to take online classes with the physiotherapist for the exercise to help my joint to be stringer on the AscentiPhysio. But now due to pain i just struggle.

Changemanaging-treatmentsTherapies

Confirm and save

Check your answers: washing and bathing

Does your condition affect you washing and bathing?

Yes

ChangewashingAndBathing

Difficulties you have with washing and bathing and how you manage them

My personal hygiene routine has changed as the pain and arthritis has spread across my body. I used to shower every day now I shower 2/3 times a week. I am right handed and have pain in the right shoulder and I cannot clean the left side of my body. I only lather up once and stand under the shower to wash soap away. I cannot bend down to soap my feet and cannot lift my leg to reach my feet as I fear of losing balance and slipping in the bath, I fallen before in the bath.

Check your answers: using the toilet and managing incontinence

Does your condition affect you using the toilet or managing incontinence?

Yes

ChangetoiletNeeds

Difficulties you have with going to the toilet and managing incontinence

I have a weak bladder and need to go to the toilet regularly. due to the arthritis and pain I cannot move quick enough to get to the bathroom on time. I have soiled my clothes many times. I don't like soiling myself have tried to rush to toilet. At home the bathroom is upstairs and I have on many occasions slipped and fallen trying to get to bathroom. I have frequently soiled myself and now keep spare change of clothes with me. When I have soiled myself my wife helps me by bringing me the clean clothes and puts my dirty clothes in the wash.

I have to use a bidet to clean myself as I cannot reach round,

ChangetoiletNeedsDetails

Confirm and save

Check your answers: dressing and undressing

Does your condition affect you dressing or undressing?

Yes

ChangedressingAndUndressing

Difficulties you have with dressing and undressing and how you manage them

struggle with pulling my top over my arms. it gets stuck and my wife helps pull it down. I have profound difficulty tying shoe laces and putting on socks, shoes, underwear and trousers due to the pain in my shoulder, hands and lower back and bending down hurts my knees. I keep my laced trainers tied loosely so that I wear them as slip on. I use a shoe horn to help put on my trainers/shoes. if possible I try to wear slide in slippers or just make my footwear into slippers by folding the back heel of the footwear by my foot.

I rarely dress and when I do it takes a long time, up to 45 minutes.

ChangedressingUndressingDetails

Confirm and save

Check your answers: talking, listening and understanding

Does your condition affect you talking, listening and understanding?

ChangetalkingAndListening

Confirm and save

Check your answers: reading

Does your condition affect your ability to read?

Changereading

Confirm and save

Check your answers: mixing with other people

Does your condition affect you mixing with other people?

Yes

ChangemixingWithOtherPeople

Difficulties you have with mixing with other people and how you manage them

I was a very social person who played lots of sports. I cannot play any more due to my illness. I am also very self conscious of soiling my self in front of friends and family. I have reduced my social interactions as I cannot sit or stand for any period of time without being in pain. I feel embarrassed about my illness and just can not face the people, so i just isolate myself in my own house and just makes more depressed.

ChangemixingWithPeopleDetails

Confirm and save

Check your answers: managing money

Does your condition affect you managing your money?

ChangemanagingMoney

Confirm and save

Check your answers: planning and following a journey

Does your condition affect you planning and following journeys?

ChangeplanningJourney

Confirm and save

Check your answers: moving around

Does your condition affect you moving around?

Yes

ChangemovingAround

How well can you stand and how far can you walk using any aids or appliances you need?

It varies:
The arthritis and stiffness in my body affects my mobility. How far and how long I can walk for depends how I am feeling that day. Winter months and cold days I have more pain and stiffness and struggle to walk short distance and on very bad days I struggle to stand up or walk to answer the front door.

ChangemovingAroundDistance

Difficulties you have with moving around and how you manage them

I am not able to walk as fast as most people. When I do walk I am in pain. when getting up from sitting position I usually use the support of chair or sofa. in the past when I have tried to walk faster/ rush I have lost balanced and slipped. walking and moving around varies depending on how much pain I am in and the weather were having. I used to play sport and go jogging. I was also a keen DIY and have stopped that. if I was get down on the floor for DIY I would struggle to come up again. I have very flat feet and weak ankles that give way especially on uneven surface. this leaves my feet swollen and bruised. Moving around and movement restricted due to pain which i struggle,

ChangemovingAroundDetails

Confirm and save

Check your answers: additional information

Is there anything else you would like to tell us about?

Yes

ChangeadditionalInformation

Additional information

My illness has had huge impact on my life. I have gone from being a very social outgoing sport playing person to someone who avoids others. I used to help my friends, local community and neighbours with small DIY jobs and find it embarrassing that I cannot help them any more. My pain is affecting my wellbeing and I am very quality of life. I don't like relying on other and as time goes on I find that I am relying on others more and more. I feel vulnerable due to my arthritis illness i have and i feel i have lost my strength due to Arthritis, where before i could lift heavy items or open jar lid, which i find it very difficult and feel like i have no strength in me. I feel weak and failure due to my illness. I feel fatigue and unmotivated. I really struggle , as my body is constantly gets stiffness and to climb at nighttime, as my body stiff, knees, ankle, back all hurts. I have this pain flowing from his osteoarthritis and now again i get shakes in the arms and hands. Focusing and concentrating makes it difficult due to constant pain .I often gets Dizziness and Blackout.

ChangeadditionalInformationDetails

Confirm and save

Tori_Scope

It's good to be prepared, but it's important to remember that people often come to us when they've had a negative experience @Leigh14, so just reading comments and posts here on the community doesn't give you a fair view on what the process is like for many people. Try not to worry too much

Leigh14

@Tori_Scope, Thankyou for that ?

@caretaker, I would say you’ve got yours covered perfectly. You’ve described it all fully.
On my pip forms, I didn’t give full descriptions like you have, so I’m hoping that I get the chance on the assessment day. Fingers crossed anyway. Good luck with yours.

caretaker

Leigh14
Good luck to your assessment, as i filled in mine and i hope it helps you and others.

Please let me know how you get on with your assessment.

Leigh14

Thankyou @caretaker, you too.

caretaker

Just an update, they disagree with a decision and gave me 0 points, so i need to Apply for mandatory reconsideration.

I was invited to see the consultation to assess my claim and i was happy to go to the appointment rather than Video zoom call.

It took a long time before i got my appointment, as i was chasing them every 3-4 weeks, as not heard from the Pip. I submitted in April and got the Appointment in August. I got the decision reply quite quickly, as the consultant said about 2 months.

now i need to write back and how to write back, as my body is always aching and stiffness in my body and joints.

poppy123456

Reading through the information you put on your form tells me that you haven't given any real world examples of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to you.

You need to give detailed explaination of what exactly happened, what the consequences were, did anyone see it? etc etc. You need to do this for every descriptor that applies to you.

I note that Preparing food. You've said that you can't carry pots around the kitchen or carry food to the table but these are not considered in the descriptors.

Moving around, you've said you can't walk as fast as most people but this doesn't tell them anything. Uneven surfaces are not considered in this descriptor.

There's a 50% chance of the MR decision changing but this is decreasing. If the MR decision stays the same then it's Tribunal. I would advise getting some expert help and advice. Start here. https://advicelocal.uk/

cristobal

@caretaker

I haven’t experienced a MR myself but I’d offer three bits of advice/comment regarding your original application.

Avoid vague terms.

If you say ‘sometimes’ X happens then the reader could assume that ‘most of the time’ it doesn’t. Similalry with”on very bad days…” - how often are they?

Give more detail and examples.

For example when you say “I once burnt myself”…

When? (e.g. if it’s once when cooking two years ago, and hasn’t happened since, then someone might conclude that that is not very frequent)
What happened?
What steps have you taken to mitigate the risk? Could your partner help with taking pans etc off the stove and you do the rest?

Try to focus on what is required in each area - and what is not!

For example, I don’t believe that actually getting to the toilet is considered under using the toilet. Neither is managing stairs nor as @poppy123456 said is moving on uneven ground. Concentrate on what scores points…

I hope that this is helpful.

Good luck

caretaker

Hi Guys,
I might need your help in writing my mandatory reconsideration.

What do you think of the below,

What part(s) of your decision do

you disagree with and why?

I dont think the assessor has understood my body, as i have this chronic pains in arms, fingers, both shoulders, back, left buttock, knees, ankles and heel and this pain is there.I struggle to hold the food tray to take it into the room, as my arms does not hold it for long and i just tend drop it. I have dropped food number of occasion and my wife has witness this and now she make sure she gives me the food, as i was causing lot of mess and trouble to my wife. I feel so tired, drained and fatigues, which is not tolerable and my day to day activity is just goes out of the window, as i dont know how i am going to cope

My life going through this pain is intolerable, my family life is in shatters, as i can not do things i used to do and going to work is a burden, as i struggle to go work every day or even on time, as my body aches and i find hard to go work regularly. I can not even enjoy my life or enjoy my work due to constant pain in my whole body. I feel discomfort in sitting and standing and when i have done something , then the following day i can not even get out of the bed and feel so tired and shattered. i can not drive longer distance due to concentration and i hardly drive the car even on shorter distance, i tend to get a lift or use public transport. My ointment cream is applied by my wife anything below the knee, as i can stretch due to pain in the body. My wife always remind me to take my medication. I always eat with my hand and i dont use cutlery, i dont know why i said cutlery , as i never use cutlery now. My wife now helps me to wash the area i can not reach like my shoulder, back and feet, as my pain is bad. My wife has to help me to put my arms into the sleeve due to pains in the shoulder.I get lot of blackouts or dizziness, so this does not help. During my appointment with the assessor can not judge in that 1 hour, as day to day life is always different and i know myself what pain i am going through, but who do i turn to, as i feel nobody understand and feel like i have been neglected from the society. My body is constant chronic pain and if you can not help, i rather die than ask someone else for help, as it is getting too much and embarrassing situation i have to go through.

poppy123456

You told them you have pain and you can't do certian tasks but you haven't gone into enough of detail. The reason they haven't understood is because of the lack of detail. You haven't given any real life examples of what happened the last time you attempted any activities. All i can see is that you're telling the the exact same things you've mentioned in your PIP2 form but this wasn't enough.

Moving things around the kitchen, or taking things to the table to eat is not considered in the cooking and preparing food acitivity.

PIP isn't about not being to work because people claim PIP and work.

If the MR decision doesn't change and it gets to Tribunal stage then you really should get some advice and if you can get representation it's even better. Use this link for that. https://advicelocal.uk/

cristobal

@caretaker - I’m sticking by the advice that I gave in a previous post! You need to give detailed examples of the difficulties that you experience in carrying out the various activities. Avoid vague terms - “ a number of occasions”, “I tend to” etc.

Pain on it’s own is irrelevant. (although you do have my sympathy as it can be very bad as I know personally from the arthritis in my hip) What is very relevant is the impact that pain has on your day to day living. I’m not clear whether it is poor grip, pain, or a tremor that prevents you from using a knife and fork. It may be a combination of these? You might say something like,

“The pain in my fingers(s) prevents me from gripping cutlery sufficiently firmly to be able to cut food and I need my wife to cut it for me. I have a tremor which means that I am unable to transfer food to my mouth without spilling. I spill food at nearly every meal.”

You’d need to explain things such as:-

Is this the same with all foods? Could you cut something soft such as an omelette? How do you eat something like soup, or stew? Does your wife have to help with this? How often? Can you use cutlery at all?

Do this for each of the activities - they’re all available on-line.

Driving isn’t something that is considered, nor working as PIP is not a means tested benefit. Personally I wouldn’t include these and I’d concentrate exclusively on what is relevant. However you might want to be prepared to explain how you are able to drive - grip the steering wheel, change gear etc - but not be able to use a knife and fork. Similarly how do you manage to eat at work?

As @poppy123456 suggested I think that you should seek face to face advice. Your situation is personal to you and if you explain your difficulties then someone will help you put them down on paper

I hope you find this helpful.

caretaker

I asked for the advice at the Disability centre and i laready drafted the letter and told me add few things, so i have pasted the letter what i am sending, as my Deadline is tomorrow. Where do i send the Mandatory Reconsideration, do i log into https://www.apply-for-pip.dwp.gov.uk/ ?

I don’t think the assessor has understood my condition, as I have chronic pain in arms, fingers, both shoulders, back, left buttock, knees, ankles and heel due to osteoarthritis.

I struggle to hold a food tray to take it into the room, as my arms can’t hold it for long and I just tend drop it. I have dropped food on a number of occasions and my wife has witness this and now she makes sure she gives me the food, as I was causing lot of mess and trouble for my wife. I feel so tired, drained and fatigued, which is intolerable and my day to day activity just goes out of the window, as I don’t know how I am going to cope.

My life going through this pain is intolerable and my family life is in shatters, as I can’t do things I used to do. Going to work is a burden as I struggle to go work every day or even get there on time as my body aches and I find hard to go work regularly. I can’t even enjoy my life or enjoy my work due to constant pain in my whole body. I feel discomfort in sitting and standing and when I have done something , then the following day I can not even get out of the bed and feel so tired and shattered.

I can not drive long distances due to lack of concentration and I hardly drive the car even on shorter distances. I now tend to get a lift or use public transport.

I get my ointment cream is applied by my wife on anything below the knee as I can’t stretch due to pain in the body and my wife has to always remind me to take my medication i am very forgetful and need reminding, not just medication, as i misplaced key, forget to turn off light, forget to flush toilet, forget to set the house Alarm and forget to close door and all of this my wife noticed. I always eat with my hand as I don’t use Knife and fork, as when i cut some of the food, it fly off from the plate , so my wife mixes the food up and soften it up and i can then eat easily without making mess on my clothes, carpet and Upholstery. The pain in my fingers(s) prevents me from gripping cutlery sufficiently firmly to be able to cut food and I need my wife to cut it for me or just mixes the food up to avoid cutting and using the cutlery.

My wife now and again helps me to wash the areasI can not reach like my shoulder, back and feet, as the pain is so bad for me to stretch. , as my body gets stiffness.

My wife has to help me to put my arms into the sleeve due to the pain in my shoulder. I also get a lot of blackouts or dizziness, when i am sitting or getting up from the floor after a bit, then i get this now and again Blackouts or Dizziness. I may have diabetes, as mentioned on the GP Local record, so this again relate to dizziness, tiredness and fatigue, So this does not help.

Day to day life is always different but there is always the constant pain I am going through. Who do I turn to as I feel nobody understands and I feel like I have been neglected from society.

My body is in constant chronic pain and if you cannot help I’d rather die than ask someone else for help. It is getting too much and an embarrassing situation I have to go through.

calcotti

caretaker said:

Where do i send the Mandatory Reconsideration, do i log into https://www.apply-for-pip.dwp.gov.uk/ ?

You post it to the address on your decision letter enter.

poppy123456

@caretaker you're still not quite understanding the descriptors and what they mean exactly. As advised to you previously, carrying items to and from the kitchen and around the kitchen, dropping food etc, are not considered as part of the criteria for preparing food. What is considered is your ability to prepare a simple meal from fresh ingredients.

Working has nothing to do with PIP because people claim PIP and work.

I wouldn't say they haven't understood your conditions, more so that you haven't given any detailed real world examples. A lot of what you've said is not considered in any of the descriptors.