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Tribunal have received my PIP appeal. Just waiting now

julie2419
julie2419 Member Posts: 33 Connected
edited April 24 in PIP, DLA, and AA
Just a update: I appealed for my pip as i got low points on my daily living part,tribunal have received the appeal and dwp have until 12th may to reply. it's just waiting now. 

Comments

  • janer1967
    janer1967 Member Posts: 12,361 Disability Gamechanger
    Well done for getting it sorted as you say just a wait now.  Don't br surprised if dwp are late responding as this is quite common 
    I have professional experience in HR within public,  private, and charity sectors.  If I can't help I will
  • julie2419
    julie2419 Member Posts: 33 Connected
  • Tori_Scope
    Tori_Scope Posts: 6,088

    Scope community team

    Thanks for the update @julie2419 :) Very best of luck.
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  • julie2419
    julie2419 Member Posts: 33 Connected
    edited April 24
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,532 Disability Gamechanger
    Nope, it is absolutely not “just waiting” now. This is the point at which you can secure representation. 
  • julie2419
    julie2419 Member Posts: 33 Connected
    @mikehughescq i have a secure representative,they helped with appeal and what to write as I couldn't have done it by myself. They know everything that is happening as well as myself. 
  • Cardiff_Central1
    Cardiff_Central1 Member Posts: 19 Connected
    whats the best way to go about 'securing' representation? I've got an appointment booked in with cab but I've heard other peoples experience about a cab rep not being able to attend with you on the actual day. The welfare rights in my area has been shut down :( is finding a solicitor the best option?
  • janer1967
    janer1967 Member Posts: 12,361 Disability Gamechanger
    @Cardiff_Central1 I wouldn't pay for a solicitor , have a look at welfare rights website it may give some points of contact

    Or Google local advice centres 

    Lots of people represent themselves depends on how confident you are putting your case forward and the complexity of the case 
    I have professional experience in HR within public,  private, and charity sectors.  If I can't help I will
  • Cardiff_Central1
    Cardiff_Central1 Member Posts: 19 Connected
    Hi @janer1967 I have but theres only cab and age UK in my area, there used to be a brilliant welfare rights place round here that I used to use to help a friend get his pip claim/housing years ago but now its gone :(  I think I am going to need someone to represent me
  • Caz_Alumni
    Caz_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 624 Pioneering
    Hi @Cardiff_Central1

    Just wanted to follow up on your recent posts to see how you're getting on. 

    I think the first thing to say is that everybody's individuals experiences in terms of appeals advice and tribunal representation are going to vary quite widely. Essentially, there's always going to be good and (without sounding too critical) less good examples of representation. In which case, it's more a case of making suggestions and signposting you to additional resources, so that you can make an informed decision about the best way forward for your particular circumstances. 

    I know that you've already got an appointment booked with Citizens' Advice, which is a positive start and at least you have that first contact to get an idea of where to go from there. At this stage, I would try not to think too much about any negative feedback that you might have heard, and use that appointment to get an idea of what comes next, even if your Citizens' Advice representative may not be present during your actual appeal.

    Plus, if you haven't already done so, you could also try AdviceLocal. That's another option for checking if there any other services in your area, beyond Citizens' Advice and Age UK. 

    There is the option of self-representation, as @janer1967 says and I've included some relevant links to the Scope and Citizens' Advice appeals pages, just in case it's helpful to you to have some additional info on the appeals process.

    And of course, there is the option of seeking advice from a legal representative if that would make you feel more comfortable. Ultimately though, it's going to be your decision as to whether or not to instruct a solicitor.

    Whatever you decide to do @Cardiff_Central1, keep talking to us on the community. Lots of our community members have been in a similar position to yourself and there's always somebody around who can help to guide you through your next steps.
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  • Cardiff_Central1
    Cardiff_Central1 Member Posts: 19 Connected
    edited April 25
    Thanks @Caz_Scope and I appreciate your wise input, I could also try Macmillan, I've just remembered they offer benefits support too. I'm still waiting for my letter to tell me why my MR was refused, the lady at pip who I spoke to last Thursday told me a letter had been sent out a few days ago so in many ways I'm still in the dark as how to proceed, I'm just trying to sus my options out. I have tried advicelocal but the only things for my postcode are cab and age uk x
  • julie2419
    julie2419 Member Posts: 33 Connected
    @Cardiff_Central1 my sister's friend helped me find a secure representative,im in Leicester soo was also difficult at first but my sisters friend really helped.  
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,532 Disability Gamechanger
    Caz_Scope said:
    Hi @Cardiff_Central1

    ...

    I think the first thing to say is that everybody's individuals experiences in terms of appeals advice and tribunal representation are going to vary quite widely. Essentially, there's always going to be good and (without sounding too critical) less good examples of representation. In which case, it's more a case of making suggestions and signposting you to additional resources, so that you can make an informed decision about the best way forward for your particular circumstances. 

    I know that you've already got an appointment booked with Citizens' Advice, which is a positive start and at least you have that first contact to get an idea of where to go from there. At this stage, I would try not to think too much about any negative feedback that you might have heard, and use that appointment to get an idea of what comes next, even if your Citizens' Advice representative may not be present during your actual appeal.

    ...

    There is the option of self-representation, as @janer1967 says and I've included some relevant links to the Scope and Citizens' Advice appeals pages, just in case it's helpful to you to have some additional info on the appeals process.

    And of course, there is the option of seeking advice from a legal representative if that would make you feel more comfortable. Ultimately though, it's going to be your decision as to whether or not to instruct a solicitor.

    Whatever you decide to do @Cardiff_Central1, keep talking to us on the community. Lots of our community members have been in a similar position to yourself and there's always somebody around who can help to guide you through your next steps.
    Some additional points to be made here. 

    1 - Most people go to appeals unrepresented. Tribunals are experienced at dealing with that and mostly people conclude they did brilliantly if they win and the tribunal are idiots if they didn't. Neither are necessarily true. Most times you lose because you ought to. It's not a message people want to hear but hear it you should. If you are going to represent yourself start here. You need to understand what your role can be and the very real limitations it can impose on how you present your case. 

    2 - Just because you can go unrepresented does not mean you should do so. Whilst advice and representation standards can vary with funding and many other variables it remains the case that there are a certain proportion of cases who should never be unrepresented. It's inviting failure. No-one on a forum can identify which is which and so advice to go unrepresented is potentially plain dangerous. Get professional advice on the merits first and then make your decision on a rep.

    It's also worth noting that statistically representation increases your chances of success by around at least 20% in a winnable case provided the rep turns up on the day and actually reps.

    Prepping a case is not representation and the two should not be confused. I would absolutely not disregard negative feedback. It can be hard to judge but it's often put out there for very solid reasons and there are many who feel that CitA for example do not make clear that their "representation" usually stops short of actual representation and that has potentially real, tangible consequences. Prepping a case has no evidence base for being as effective as actual representation. 

    There is also in fact next to no real world advice on how to represent yourself at a security appeal. Knowing the "process" is not what you actually need to know at all. Lots of web sites can talk you through the process. Only a rep will talk you through the practicalities. 

    3 - Using a legal representative i.e. solicitor is not really something to be advised. Solicitors are not trained in benefits to any appreciable extent and there is limited accreditation. You can always spot them at "informal" tribunals as they will be reinforcing that informality with their suit and tie and will refer to the tribunal erroneously as a court. Some are brilliant. Most of those are doing benefits at the judicial review level and not hiding away on the high street in a firm that in reality specialises in conveyancing.  

    An example. Try this for yourself. Use https://solicitors.lawsociety.org.uk and put in your post code. In my area I did it for welfare benefits.

    It initially came up with 675 possibles within a 25 mile radius. Then you realise that, having ticked welfare benefits it has unticked it and just given you every one. So, tick it again and we're down to 174. Now the crucial bit. There is legal aid available for prepping a tribunal. None available for repping. This is, historically why CitA and solicitors largely don't do it. I tick the box asking for the ones who do legal aid for welfare benefits and suddenly 675 has shrunk to 13. I know my area well. How many of them actually do welfare benefits? 2. Of those how many rep. at appeal? Well 2 of course but you'll be paying for the privilege and there is no guarantee that paid for advice is better quality than free advice. None at all. 

    The idea that a solicitor is an option here is largely unrealistic.

    4 - Finally, advice from forum members? I don't think so. See point 1. People who win think they did so because they were well prepared; challenge the HCP report blah blah blah. Largely unrepresented people win because of the competence of the tribunal and largely in spite of what they presented and not because of it. Putting the wild west comedy that is Facebook to one side for a moment there is nothing worse than you can do when in need of representation than seek the counsel of others who have been through that process. Their experience is their experience. That does not make it valid or even accurate for others. One of the reasons I first spoke up here was explicitly because I was (and am) appalled at what people are allowed to say about these things without correction. Most unrepresented appellants win because they had a winnable case and the tribunal do actually generally know what they're doing. 
  • Cardiff_Central1
    Cardiff_Central1 Member Posts: 19 Connected
    Thanks for all the info @mikehughescq at this stage it all seems like a down hill struggle, I feel too ill to take much of that in right now so heaven knows how I'm going to cope with the whole ordeal. I still haven't received the letter yet as to how the decision has been reached so I still have no idea what I'm up against, I'm in hospital for treatment tomorrow morning so I'll try and call them if I have the energy in the afternoon if the letters still not arrived in tomorrows post...I have X & X condition that makes me feel like X which stops me from being able to do X, X, X, X & X and I need help with X & X not to mention X & X all backed up by my gp & a specialist but its all just disregarded on the fact that I'm not taking treatment that isn't used for my condition anyway, the only thing I lied about is when I was asked if I can manage to deal with people face to face to which I replied I have no choice as i have to weekly for medical treatments and monitoring, in hindsight I should of gone into more detail maybe but I don't recall there being much of an opportunity to emphasise much.
    I'm not entitled to legal aid anyway as I'm a home owner but I understand your point about using a solicitor 
  • julie2419
    julie2419 Member Posts: 33 Connected
    Just a question if dwp do not respond by 12th may to the tribunal which im preety sure now will happen as its just a week away what would happen after?  
  • janer1967
    janer1967 Member Posts: 12,361 Disability Gamechanger
    The tribunal will contact them and ask for response again 

    This happens quite a lot that dwp do not respond by deadline set they are just given longer 
    I have professional experience in HR within public,  private, and charity sectors.  If I can't help I will
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,532 Disability Gamechanger
    There is a 90 day deadline and after that reminders go out every 2 weeks. You can of course be a monkey and ask a judge to direct a date and have DWP struck from the proceedings if they fail to comply. The Tribunal Procedure rules are your friends.
  • julie2419
    julie2419 Member Posts: 33 Connected
  • mark1983
    mark1983 Member Posts: 48 Listener
    for my wife case  it took 9 months for dwp to send in the bundle to the tribunal we did add a note to the judge that it is unfair it has taken that long with all the deadlines they had but just best to focus on the points u think u deserve give a few examples 
  • julie2419
    julie2419 Member Posts: 33 Connected
    edited May 3
    Thank you @mark1983. 9 months is a long time. hopefully i will get a letter soon from the tribunal. 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,532 Disability Gamechanger
    mark1983 said:
    for my wife case  it took 9 months for dwp to send in the bundle to the tribunal we did add a note to the judge that it is unfair it has taken that long with all the deadlines they had but just best to focus on the points u think u deserve give a few examples 
    Which is very poor advice indeed. You are entitled to ask for directions and amongst other things can ask for DWP to be taken out of the equation. See 2 (2) e of https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/488476/consolidated-sec-rules.pdf and 5 (3)i plus rules 7 and 8.
  • mark1983
    mark1983 Member Posts: 48 Listener
    ty mike this makes good reading wish CAB told us about this, could my wife query this on the tribunal day the long delay from dwp or no its too late now 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,532 Disability Gamechanger
    It’s never too late to ask for directions pre-hearing but making a point on the day about it is far too late. Act now and be clear what you’re asking for and why or don’t bother at all.
  • julie2419
    julie2419 Member Posts: 33 Connected
    I received a update from the tribunal,and its good news 😀. Dwp  have changed their decision in my favour. They have closed the appeal. Im just really happy.😀i got a email from the Tribunal service in the morning. 
  • janer1967
    janer1967 Member Posts: 12,361 Disability Gamechanger
    That's great news and thanks for sharing 
    I have professional experience in HR within public,  private, and charity sectors.  If I can't help I will
  • julie2419
    julie2419 Member Posts: 33 Connected
    Thank you @janer1967. Im soo glad i joined this site as you get soo much great advice from others who are also going through the same things and it really helps when you are stuck.
  • janer1967
    janer1967 Member Posts: 12,361 Disability Gamechanger
    I'm glad you have found the site useful 

    Be great for you to stay around and join in maybe have a look in the coffee lounge or recent discussions if you haven't already 
    I have professional experience in HR within public,  private, and charity sectors.  If I can't help I will
  • julie2419
    julie2419 Member Posts: 33 Connected
    I will stay on as im really finding it very useful. Thank you @janer1967
  • Tori_Scope
    Tori_Scope Posts: 6,088

    Scope community team

    Fantastic, well done @julie2419 :) Thanks for sharing the news. 

    And please do stick around, we look forward to seeing you over on some other discussions!
    Online Community Coordinator, she/her

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  • julie2419
    julie2419 Member Posts: 33 Connected
    Thank you @Tori_Scope. I will do. 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,532 Disability Gamechanger
    julie2419 said:
    I received a update from the tribunal,and its good news 😀. Dwp  have changed their decision in my favour. They have closed the appeal. Im just really happy.😀i got a email from the Tribunal service in the morning. 
    To be clear, at this point on time what evidence do you have as to what the revised decision is? A lapsed appeal on the day so of DWP without you having even received the revised decision is not how these things should happen. I’d be asking HMCTS for a copy of what DWP sent them before I relaxed at all.
  • julie2419
    julie2419 Member Posts: 33 Connected
    @mikehughescq i rang the HMCTS and they said Dwp have sent the letter out on Friday but as it was a long weekend will get a few days late. HMCTS only emailed today. 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,532 Disability Gamechanger
    edited May 4
    So you have no evidence that it’s been revised in full as yet. In order to request that HMCTS lapse the appeal DWP have to give you everything you would have got at appeal. Anything less and the appeal must proceed. Two problems with that. One is that HMCTS can be lazy and careless and just lapse on request without checking what the decision was. The other is that DWP very often revise but don’t quite give what you asked for. 

    Now, if this was all done in the haste described then I’d be a little concerned at what’s coming. I don’t want to worry you. It may well be fine but alarm bells are ringing and I’d check that decision very carefully. Of course first case scenario is that the appeal carries on but with DWP limping somewhat having revised and then been caught out. Best is of course that you get what you’re entitled to. 
  • julie2419
    julie2419 Member Posts: 33 Connected
    @mikehughescq yes will definitely check everything very carefully whn the letter comes, and if any problems will speak to my representative and contact HMCTS and ask them to go ahead with appeal. I wont let let it go. 
  • julie2419
    julie2419 Member Posts: 33 Connected
    Just a update,i called PIP to see if i was awarded the rate im entitled to and yes i got the daily living enhanced rate. I already had mobility but daily living i was scoring 0 on the parts i should have been awarded until i took the help of my sisters friend who was going to be my representative. She helped fill the form in and finally i got what i was supposed too get. Im just waiting for letter soo will double check everything still. 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,532 Disability Gamechanger
    Length of award?
  • julie2419
    julie2419 Member Posts: 33 Connected
    @mikehughescq it's ongoing till 2030 
  • Cardiff_Central1
    Cardiff_Central1 Member Posts: 19 Connected
    Bloody hell, it really is a mine field isn't it  :o ....I've taken the plunge today and sent the forms in, any links/tips would be very much appreciated 
  • Popdiva43
    Popdiva43 Member Posts: 143 Pioneering
    did you do by post or online

  • Cardiff_Central1
    Cardiff_Central1 Member Posts: 19 Connected
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,532 Disability Gamechanger
    julie2419 said:
    @mikehughescq it's ongoing till 2030 
    Then all is well.
  • julie2419
    julie2419 Member Posts: 33 Connected
    Just a update,i got the letter today. I scored 13 points for daily living and I already had mobility which i got 12. Both enhanced rates. Ongoing till 2030. Got a backpayment too. 😀
  • janer1967
    janer1967 Member Posts: 12,361 Disability Gamechanger
    @julie2419 that's great all sorted and you can take a break from it all now 
    I have professional experience in HR within public,  private, and charity sectors.  If I can't help I will
  • Caz_Alumni
    Caz_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 624 Pioneering
    edited May 6
    Oh, that's good news for you @julie2419.

    Thanks for popping back to the community and giving us an update as well. It's really positive to hear. :)

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  • julie2419
    julie2419 Member Posts: 33 Connected
    Thank you @janer1967 and @Caz_Scope. Yepp that is true can take a brake that its over,but my Esa telephone assessment outcome im still waiting for. I called them up and it's with the decision maker. My epilepsy fits have increased overtime and my health has gotten worse. I did tell the health professional everything. I get soo anxious. 
  • janer1967
    janer1967 Member Posts: 12,361 Disability Gamechanger
    Well fingers crossed that is a good outcome as well 
    I have professional experience in HR within public,  private, and charity sectors.  If I can't help I will
  • julie2419
    julie2419 Member Posts: 33 Connected
    I really hope sooo @janer1967

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