ESA & universal credit

DeeOxnard

My new style ESA ran out in Nov 2020 it was only for 12 months, after this I was told to claim UC until ESA decided which group I would be put in, which we did but never received any money from Dec-July from UC.
 but then I had A WCA which I had in June 2021, I was told I’m LCWRA & UC was back dated the payments to the Dec, but I’m having problems understanding it, 
in some payments on the UC my husbands wages were took into account and for those months I received £232 for the month, where if I was on ESA I would get £456, so I thought I would be better off on ESA so I asked to transfer back, but I had a letter saying that UC is the benefit we need to stay on.
BUT HERE COMES THE CONFUSION.
Yesterday I had 2 payments go into my bank for 5.5k in total for ESA I was told that you get ESA & UC together,
so I rang them to be told it’s back pay & 2 weeks of ESA £256, but I have received back payment from UC already from Dec-July 20/21.
But then I was told it was back pay from my first claim off the New style ESA @12 months in 2019 I only received £74 week instead off £114.
something doesn’t add up here I’m so worried can anyone please shed any light on how they have worked this out 
kind regards Dee

calcotti

Did you ever have an assessment during your 12 months on new style ESA ending November 2020 or was the assessment in June 2021 a delayed ESA assessment?

Assuming the latter the outcome of the assessment means that you are due the Support component of ESA from the 14th week of the ESA claim until it stopped. Your ESA should also be reinstated from November 2020 at the Support Group rate. 

You will now receive both ESA and UC. The ESA will however reduce your UC payments because it is deducted in full from UC payable. Whether any UC is payable will depend on your circumstances.

UC will now need to recalculate all of the payments they have made to you to take account of the ESA. Note that when they do this the existing payment statements will be overwritten and you will no longer have access to them. Make copies now if you want a record of the previous versions.

If UC have already paid you arrears of LCWRA without taking into account the ESA there will have been a UC overpayment so put the money aside until it has been resolved. 

Your UC statements should always take account of your wages but you have a Work Allowance which means that some of them are ignored (the first £293 if the claim includes the housing element, the first £515 if it doesn’t) above this there is a 63% deduction.

DeeOxnard

Thank you for The reply
I never had A assessment on my 12 months new style ESA I was told due to Covid it would be delayed that I would need a face-to-face assessment before I could be put into a support group, so during the 12 months on the new style ESA I was paid £73.10 weekly, then in November 2020 my payment stopped altogether I was told I could no longer stay on ESA until my WCA was done so they could establish which group I would be put into on ESA.
this was when I was told by ESA to claim universal credit until my work capability assessment was done, so from November until June we claimed universal credit but during this period no payment was ever paid to us.
The start of my claim for new style ESA was the 2nd of March 2020
in the letter it states that I’m entitled National insurance contribution ESA for the 12 month period
universal credit then worked out the backpay we were in entitled to between November to the June, 2 of the pay periods were £282
So I spoke to universal credit and said I would be better off on ESA but they told me universal credit was the benefit I needed to be on my argument was if I was getting ESA I would be paid £456 making me worse off on universal credit.
So the universal credit I looked at their statements and worked out that the backpay they have given me was correct from the November to the June.
£596.58 standard amount as a couple

£163.73 Carer element

£343.63 LCWRA

My husbands wages £1810 taking off £515.00 payment for this month was £282 on UC, but if I was on ESA it would of been £456 is LCWRA not protected on UC.

Is the ESA back pay of 5.5k because I was paid £74.10 weekly during my claim of new style ESA and not the support group rate of £114, or is it a overpayment or a mistake,

And why have they made a payment of £256.10 as well for this fortnight and the backpay does that mean they have put me back to ESA and do I need to stop my claim for universal credit I spoke to someone yesterday but I’m still really confused because they said that you can claim universal credit and ESA together

Any help on this would be really good I’m just stressing myself out about it it’s just so confusing.

Many thanks Dee

Samiam72

Hi Dee,
I am just as confused. I have to fill in my husbands wages each month as he is self employed, i have just had a WCA and i do not know if this is paid to me directly or my husband as it originally was set up to pay him when he was sick and couldn't work and we had no income. So is this a separate payment? or is it paid into one account? 
I really am so confused by it all. so if my husband earns over the threshold (not even sure what that is?) do i get nothing at all? this all seems very tricky - bring back individual payments for each claim and not land them all under the UC umbrella. 
The stress of the paperwork and assessment alone is awful now to think i may not get anything at all, also the stress of the Council Tax changing every month is also a nightmare as you can't budget. 
I feel your pain. Good Luck x

DeeOxnard

I agree some months I get some, some months nothing then some months the full amount £1100 to nothing the following month, I’m not sure if I’m now on universal credit or ESA, they say if your both they deduct your claim by each benefit I’m totally stressed out with it, I’ve got bills that need paying but I won’t touch the money until I know I’m entitled to but how do I know what I’m entitled to if universal credit and ESA don’t tell me.

It would’ve been just easier just to leave me on ESA I hope you get yours Sorted soon Mine as been going on for 18 months now

good Luck x

Samiam72

 it’s ridiculous! Wish they left things alone, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it - wasn’t broken - just greedy politicians cutting benefits to line their own needs. 

Hope you get yours sorted too, understand the stresses. All the very best xx

calcotti

DeeOxnard said:

The start of my claim for new style ESA was the 2nd of March 2020

I'm confused by this. In your opening pot you said your ESA ran out in November 2020. You should have got it for 12 months.

DeeOxnard said:

So I spoke to universal credit and said I would be better off on ESA but they told me universal credit was the benefit I needed to be on my argument was if I was getting ESA I would be paid £456 making me worse off on universal credit.

That is confused information from DWP. You will not be worse off claiming ESA and UC. The ESA is deducted from UC so if the UC is worth more than ESA you will get both (which will total the same as if you just claimed UC) but if the UC would be less than ESA you will still get the ESA. 

DeeOxnard said: Is LCWRA not protected on UC.

LCWRA is just one part of the calculation to work out your maximum UC entitlement. NO individual part of UC is protected.

DeeOxnard said:

 I’m not sure if I’m now on universal credit or ESA,

As advised in my first reply

calcotti said:

You will now receive both ESA and UC. The ESA will however reduce your UC payments because it is deducted in full from UC payable. Whether any UC is payable will depend on your circumstances.

What I would expect is that you will now receive a fortnightly ESA payment of £228.20. You may then receive a monthly UC payment as well depending on how much your husband has earned in the month.
Your UC calculation will be standard allowance £596.58 plus carer element £163.73 plus LCWRA element £163.73 = maximum amount £1103.94/month.
You will then have a deduction of ESA £494.42
There will also be a deduction of 63% of anything your husband earns above £515,
This means that if you husband earns more than £1482.47/month there will be no UC payable.
Bear in mind that UC standard allowance is due to reduce by £86.67/month from October. When this happens if your husband earns more than £1,386.40 there will be no UC payable.

DeeOxnard said:

Is the ESA back pay of 5.5k because I was paid £74.10 weekly during my claim of new style ESA and not the support group rate of £114, or is it a overpayment or a mistake,

And why have they made a payment of £256.10 as well for this fortnight

The ESA arrears will consist of two parts. You are due the Support component of £39.20 for 39 weeks of the period they originally paid you ESA (slightly over £1,500). You are then due £113.55/£114.10 per week for the period from when they stopped your ESA up to today (if that's 35 weeks it would come to roughly another £4,000).
I can't explain the separate £256.10.

Unfortunately from what you have said UC appear to have already paid you arrears of LCWRA for the UC claim without taking the ESA award into account. This means that there will have been an overpayment and as advised in my earlier post they will have to recalculate the UC entitlement again in order to work out the overpayment. The arrears of the Support Group component predate the UC claim so will be fine. The overlapping amount, which appears to be about £4000 may be an overpayment.

You may wish to post a journal message regarding payments along the lines of
Following the decision that I have LCWRA you recalculated my UC entitlement and paid me arrears of UC. 
I understand that my ESA has now been reinstated and I have received an ESA arrears payment. 
I am concerned that the ESA arrears may now mean that I was overpaid UC. I would be grateful if you would advise me if this is the case as I do not want to spend the money and then be told I need to pay it back.

You do not need to cancel your UC claim - indeed I would advise you not to. If your husband's wages mean that you are not entitled to receive any UC for a number of months DWP will eventually close the claim anyway.

calcotti

Samiam72 said: i have just had a WCA and i do not know if this is paid to me directly or my husband as it originally was set up to pay him when he was sick and couldn't work and we had no income. So is this a separate payment? or is it paid into one account? 

Do you mean LCWRA has just been awarded? If so this is not a separate payment (although any arrears will be paid separately), it is just part of the calculation of your maximum UC amount. 

Samiam72 said:

I really am so confused by it all. so if my husband earns over the threshold (not even sure what that is?) do i get nothing at all? this all seems very tricky - bring back individual payments for each claim and not land them all under the UC umbrella. 

Yes the UC will be reduced to nil if the earnings deduction is greater than the maximum UC amount (and taking into account any other deductions). There is no fixed threshold, it depends on your circumstances.
The means tested benefits that UC has replaced were also always based on joint circumstances.

DeeOxnard

@calcotti
thank you I think I’m starting to work it out thanks to you, your a star ⭐️.
the first person that has made any sense of my payments.
so if I’m on ESA I will get £114.10 a week but it’s paid fortnightly to me through the bank 
your calculations of £494.43 is because it’s 12 monthly payments for the year.
so if my payments since November were:
December 0.00 this one I had my annual leave pay for 18 months from work so I’m not entitled to UC as I earn too much but I should have 494.43 still from ESA.
January 863.80 so I would need to deduct 494.43 off this payment  I should off been paid 369.37
February 362.68 this one deduct 494.43 it’s -131.75 I would not get anything from UC
Is this the way it works?

The reason for ESA starting March & finishing November is because my employers sent the forms back to late for me to claim, ESA back dated 13 weeks of it but said my employer need to compensate me for the other 13 weeks which they refused so I lost 13 weeks of the 12 months.
Thank you for being so helpful after working 38 years & first time on benefits it’s just so confusing 

many thanks Dee

calcotti

DeeOxnard said: so if I’m on ESA I will get £114.10 a week but it’s paid fortnightly to me through the bank 

Yes.

DeeOxnard said:

your calculations of £494.43 is because it’s 12 monthly payments for the year.

Yes, weekly amount x 52 / 12.

In terms of the numbers, yes that’s the way it works. Obviously I can’t comment on the actual numbers.

DeeOxnard said:

The reason for ESA starting March & finishing November is because my employers sent the forms back to late for me to claim, ESA back dated 13 weeks of it but said my employer need to compensate me for the other 13 weeks which they refused so I lost 13 weeks of the 12 months.

Got you, if you claimed on March and backdated by 3 months that would be 1st December which means claim would end on 30th November. The claim would actually be described as starting on 1st December (the date from which entitlement commenced). Anyway, now that ESA is reinstated that is all irrelevant.

I take it your employer was late issuing the SSP1 - it is appalling how bad some employers can be about that (especially as it’s such a simple form to complete).

DeeOxnard

@calcotti
yes they were too late I had to fight them for the form, then they dated it august 2019, but they sent it in February 2020 in the post disgusting how some employers treat their employees.
so now I’m understanding the way UC & ESA works I should be able to work out the overpayment correct me if I’m wrong 
Tomorrow it says I should receive £363 UC as they paid me £228.20 today ESA with the arrears in theory this month I will not get UC so this £363 is a overpayment.
last month we got 849.00 UC so I need to take off 494.43 ESA totals 354.57 so this is the amount we should of received so no overpayment.
and the month before we got 262.00 UC but because we have had arrears from ESA this is an overpayment so this will need to be paid back 

I will be amazed if I’ve got it right lol
once again thank You for your help you have been a star

kind Regards Dee

calcotti

As previously suggested I would post a note in your journal highlighting the issue.
unfortunately, under UC regulations any overpayment of UC is recoverable even if it is a mistake by DWP.

note also my previous comment

calcotti said:

.Note that when they recalculate entitlement the existing payment statements will be overwritten and you will no longer have access to them. Make copies now if you want a record of the previous versions.