Questions about ESA Telephone WCA

[Deleted User]

Hello,

I'm looking for a bit of advice/support in regards to my upcoming phone assessment. I have different mental and physical health problems, one of them being social anxiety so I'm VERY worried about the assessment and have some questions if that's ok. I'm highly stressed and anxious atm and I also can't read loads of information due to my poor concentration, attention span, memory and fatigue/headaches.

1. The last time a ESA50 was filled in was back in 2017, I received a letter on the 26th dated the 24th saying I had a phone assessment on the 24th, this in turn triggered my anxiety quite badly and I had an anxiety attack, my Son called them and at first the person said they hadn't sent me a letter and didn't even know what benefit it was about (it doesn't state it on the letter), at first I thought it may have been PIP because of a mistake that was made after my appeal in regards to my award length but no it was about my ESA, so my Son told the man I hadn't filled in a form for a while and the man tried to tell my Son it's not based on the ESA50 that was sent back?!?! Also is it normal for them to go off a form that is 3 years old? What if your conditions have gotten worse?

2. Is anyone allowed to speak on your behalf at the assessment? I'm finding the thought of speaking to a stranger extremely stressful and I've started to have thoughts of not wanting to be here which happens when I'm stressed/anxious, the other problems I have is that when I do talk to someone depending on who they are, I have an anxiety attack then I kind of switch into auto pilot mode, it's almost like looking through someone else's eyes, it's very off and then I just reel stuff off because I want to get rid of the person that is causing me to feel like that. Just to state I'm a survivor of childhood and domestic abuse, I am not at all good with people, I don't like or trust them, they make me feel agitated and angry so for that reason I only really have anything to do with my Mum and Son but I'm more comfortable with my Son. I believe I have undiagnosed complex ptsd, GAD and that I disassociate/fawn. So I'm obviously very worried about how I'm going to be when talking to the person, it happened at the PIP assessment and the assessor assumed I was only anxious for 20 mins, but actually I had an anxiety attack and "switched off" mentally so to speak. I hope I've made sense there.

3. Can anyone give me advice on how to handle the call, would it be an idea for me and my Son to make notes so I can read the answers off or is there something else that I can do? I do have a copy of my ESA50 but I feel like there are a lot of errors in it, maybe not enough explanation but that could be me overthinking it, I didn't fill it in, Fightback did, plus it's not up to date. My son will be there but he's already been told that he can only help/support me during the call, he tried that during the PIP assessment, but what he said was virtually ignored despite him being my carer and him being around me all day, everyday. Are you able to ask them to record the call at all?! I'm assuming that these calls are done via speak phone if you want someone to be with you and no I wouldn't record without asking.

4. Also, someone said you need to have diagnoses to claim one of the benefits, I can't remember which it was, but not everyone can get a diagnoses of their health conditions, I'm having a lot of trouble in regards to my because of how bad my anxiety is and the fact my GP's are about as much use as a chocolate teapot, I've actually contact an advocacy to see if they can help me by either helping me speak to a GP or speaking on my behalf.

Just to say I have significant anxiety, agoraphobia, depression, social anxiety, FM which are all diagnosed and I believe I have undiagnosed complex PTSD, GAD and maybe OCD, plus I disassociate/fawn. I don't take medication, I was advised to stop which is noted in my medical records, I also don't have any other treatment because nothing has helped and in regards to pain, nothing has helped there and I can't take painkillers due to having stomach and swallowing problems. The problem that I have is that I lack medical evidence.

I have been awarded PIP again for 5 years which was a struggle, but that's a story for another day.

I'm sorry if it seems like I've waffled about nothing, I'm very stressed, anxious, tired and it's having a knock on effect to my fibro.

calcotti

Amathyst said:
4. Also, someone said you need to have diagnoses to claim one of the benefits, I can't remember which it was, but not everyone can get a diagnoses of their health conditions, 

It is not necessary to have a diagnosed health condition to claim either PIP or ESA. They are both based on the impact health conditions have on your ability to do things. People with the same diagnosis may be affected very differently and, as you say, not even health condition comes with a diagnosis. (In the interests of completeness I should add that for ESA there are some health conditions for which a diagnosis does result in automatic entitlement.)

It does seem unusual to be having an assessment without having been asked to complete an up to date questionnaire. If you are able to you should ask about this at the start of the assessment.
If your son will be with you I suggest that if you start having a panic attack your son should intervene and state clearly that that is what is happening.

[Deleted User]

Thank you @calcotti I'm even anxious posting on here to be honest. I'm really not great with social situations at all.

I thought it was a bit weird in regards to the form.

Ok, I shall let my Son know, yeah my Son is here with me all of the time, he's my carer and knows me pretty well, he can tell when there is something up with me a majority of the time.

I did think what the person told me was incorrect, she was trying to tell me that my Son needed to be an appointee in order to help me at the assessment and I was sat here thinking but it states on their web page that a companion can help/support you anyway but they obviously focus on the claimant. 

Thanks for being so nice.

Edit - In regards to the undiagnosed mental health problems, do I mention them or just leave it this time? The GAD affects me daily, I have anxiety every day, the CPTSD affects me regularly, I have flashback and such.

poppy123456

HI,

You can download the work capability assessment form, fill it in and return it to The Health Assessment Advisory Service but you'll need to find out where the nearest one is to you, so you can send it to them. Contact details here. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/capability-for-work-questionnaire

If there's not enough time to do this before the assessment date then you can ring to cancel that appointment and make another one for a different date.

WCA form here. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/975770/esa50-capability-for-work-questionnaire.pdf

Or you can make notes before the assessment so you'll have something to refer to. They will want to know what a typical day is for you. Although i always find making reminder notes is worse because for me it's difficult to read the notes and listen to the questions being asked. I prefer to just answer the questions and not have any notes to refer to because it's impossible to predict what questions they will ask.

[Deleted User]

Hi @poppy123456 I'd need help with filling it in as I'm terrible at doing forms due to my concentration/attention span, it takes me half of my time to read things and I don't want to dump the responsibility on my Son tbh. I only have until the 3rd anyway  

Yeah, I understand but that's the thing with my health problems, I am useless at explaining how I'm affected, I'm useless at explaining anything in general. 

I was thinking notes might be a tad easier just to kind of like prompt my memory and as I find it hard speaking to people I thought it may help a little bit.

If I get stuck on things, is my Son allowed to help at all? It does say on the site "They may be able to speak on your behalf and can offer useful support. However, the assessment will focus on you and the answers you give." and I think that's what he was told when he called to ask about it. 

So there's absolutely no way that someone can speak on your behalf? They can only help?

poppy123456

I'm assuming your assessment is 3rd September? You can cencel that one and make another appointment for a different date. This will give you time to fill out the form, although i know you said you find filling out forms difficult. I would say the majority of people feel exactly the same with these types of forms. Maybe your son can just assist you with this, rather than do it all himself.

With regards to your son speaking on your behalf. You should ask this question at the start of your assessment because it will depend on the person doing it. Some are happy for another person to speak on your behalf. If this isn't possible then he should be able to just prompt you.

If you think making notes to prepare for the assessment then yes do that. I was just saying that i find it more difficult but some find it helps.

[Deleted User]

Yeah sorry, 3rd of September.

Ok thank you, I'll try and remember about asking.

I'll have a think about asking them to postpone the appointment so we can fill out another form, the thing is, as I said in my original post. I think, when my Son called to ask what the letter was for etc. the man tried to tell my Son that it wasn't in relation to the ESA50 done in 2017 but then again he also said my Son could speak on my behalf at the assessment as long as I gave permission which I felt was incorrect so he called back to double check and was told that was incorrect, and was basically told what is on the site about being able to help etc. So who knows. 

Thanks again.

[Deleted User]

I never actually had the assessment, it's now on the 27/09.

I had a call today from an "organisation" who are supposed to help with forms, MR's, tribunals etc. It was supposed to be an "assessment buddy" and she was supposed to talk me through the process.. I told her I was writing notes to remind myself of things and gave her an example in regards to walking, she said I didn't need to do that as it was based on symptoms?!?! She said what I was doing was more what you would do for PIP?!

I was under the impression you would have to tell the assessor if asked, if you could do something or not and if you can't why and what would happen if you tried?! 

So why bother asking the questions on the form then if that's the case!

Some proper info would be greatly welcomed as the whole thing is making me feel very ill. I just want to know what to expect so I can prepare myself and also stop stressing as it's making my hear palps worse which I'm already worrying about.. It's making my health worse in general because my brain overthinks everything.

My Son's going to call the DWP tomorrow and speak to them about the form situation as the "assessment buddy" suggested we should ask them.

poppy123456

I disagree with the "buddy" you spoke to. It's a very similar process to PIP but with different criteira.

The work capability assessment looks at your ability to do any type of work so they will want to know what a typical day is like for you. Yes, you would absolutely give real life examples just as you suggested above.

Ringing DWP at this stage isn't going to help you because they don't send out the work capability assessment forms, the Health Assessment Advisory Service send them. You will likely be waiting in the queue for a long time when it's not needed.

I posted a link to the form which is available online for you do download and print, i'm assuming you didn't do that. Here's another link for the form. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/975770/esa50-capability-for-work-questionnaire.pdf

[Deleted User]

No, I didn't do it because I was being told how many different things which was making my anxiety worse, I don't have a working printer either

Welfare Rights kindly called me and have pretty much said what I was doing was right in regards to my notes.

I do have a question, so for example, I have fibromyalgia and it causes widespread pain, so would this as an answer be ok?

"Due to Fibromyalgia, which causes widespread pain, I cannot walk without suffering from significant pain and discomfort in my back, hips, right knee, legs, ankles and feet, I also get out of breath and have balance issues due to vertigo and I suffer from fatigue. I would have to stop often to try and ease the pain and to regain my breath. After exertion I am usually very sore and tired and it would take me up to a couple of days to recover. I use a walking stick for balance and to try and alleviate the pain but this causes the pain in my hands, wrists and arms to become worse. I very rarely go out partly because of my mobility problems, when I do go out my son is always with me." 

or is that too much or too little?

I really just want to get what I'm saying right because I was already deemed fit for work twice previously but it was when ATOS was doing the assessments.

So do we need to contact the assessment company instead then or just go with the form that was already sent in? I have conditions to add to it but not a great deal has changed since the form was filled out, not that I can think of. I'm not keen on the wording used on it though lol.

Thanks for the info @poppy123456 I appreciate it.

poppy123456

I don't see any real life examples written there. I have fibromyalgia too but i also have other conditions.

If you're currently in the Support Group do you know which descriptor applied to you to get you into this group? Potentially the mobilising one? See the descriptors here. https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/employment-and-support-allowance/esa-glossary/1353-support-group-descriptors

If it was the mobilising one this will include your ability to use a manual wheelchair so you will also need to make sure that you cover this part too.

If you want them to send you a form out then you will need to contact them but time isn't on your side now, ideally this should have been done when you first posted here for advice. If it's only a diagnosis that you need to add to the forms then personally i wouldn't bother, especially if the way you're affected hasn't changed.

[Deleted User]

No, I'm not in support, I was put into WRAG by the tribunal panel back in around 2012 and haven't had an assessment since, I have filled in forms but never been asked to come in. Since then my health has become worse but I was told that because the tribunal put me in WRAG that there was no point disputing it.

I THINK that when I was put into WRAG I won the tribunals based on my mental health. Since then I have been diagnosed with other things, like fibromyalgia and other mental health problems (I know it's not about diagnoses).

What do you mean by real life examples? 

This is why I don't write my own forms, the whole thing makes me very anxious as I never know how to explain things properly.

Yeah, I'll probably leave the form, I've been told I can update the assessor and that she'll understand if there have been changes.

poppy123456

Real life examples of anything that's happened to you... have you had any recent falls? any accidents at home? adding details such as where you were, who (if anyone) seen it, what exactly happened and what were the consequences.

They will want to know what a typical day is for you, what exactly you do throughout your day. These are likely to be the sort of questions you maybe asked during your assessment.

Just so that you're aware you can only dispute a Tribunal decision on error of law. If your condition had got worse then reporting a change of circumstances would have been possible.

The more you think about this the worse you'll become and i'm speaking from experience. I know it's extremely difficult to think about something different but try your hardest to put it to the back of your mind until the day of your assessment. Do something to keep your mind off it... watch a film, read a book, do a puzzle? anything.

I've had quite a few work capability assessments since i first claimed ESA back in 2012 and they terrify me too. I dread the form coming through the letter box and every time it surprises me because i always forget it's a white envelope, not brown. Thankfully my last one was paper based back in March 2020 just as we went into the first lockdown.

Please do come back and let us know the outcome! Good luck.

[Deleted User]

Ahh! Got you! No, I rarely go out due to being agoraphobic among other things and I live in a bungalow, I'm not too bad inside on the flat, there are walls I lean on if I struggle. My son does need to come in the garden with me due to me stumbling out there but I've never had a fall. I did fall on the bed the other week due to balance but I'm not sure that would count. So I have no idea what real life example I could do for walking with me not having any accidents as such.

I did do something like that for one, I mentioned that I tend to smash pots so we've ended up switching over to plastic plates and such. Also mentioned that my son ended up cutting my hair because I was finding it so hard to manage due to pain.

I didn't know that, I was told I couldn't dispute it... can't remember who by.

I know, you're right, my anxiety is significant, everything and anything worries me, it's a daily thing and I have no let up from it, honestly my mental health frustrates me so much, I can manage the FM, I'm used to pain, I've been in pain since I was little with one thing or another but my mental health is another thing, I don't have a care plan in place and I've been told that my mental health problems are complex due to me having so many and them being caused by childhood and domestic abuse (sexual, mental and physical), I've tried all sorts of things to help myself but have gotten a grand total of nowhere.

Thanks for trying to help and understand, I will try and find something to distract me.

Yeah I will let you know the outcome

[Deleted User]

I just realised something after rereading what Poppy said and reading something on the net earlier... that's if I've gotten it right, it's not just about mobilising outside, it's about inside as well?

I think I'm going to reread the descriptors and other info just so I can get it clear in my head for Monday. I think problem with me yesterday was, I had the "assessment buddy" give me the wrong information which in turn gave me a panic attack, so I was having issues trying to calm down for most of the day.. I certainly won't be asking them for help again, it's the same place that filled my form in.. £45 

I'm waiting on an assessment with the OT services here and I've gotten myself and advocate to try and get a proper care plan put in place in regards to my mental health, unless OT services can help with that as well. I'm assuming I should mention that in the assessment as well?

I am not as anxious atm, anxiety is a daily thing that I struggle with, so no doubt it'll flare up later.. it always does, my brain always likes to worry about something.

Thanks again for trying to help Poppy  

poppy123456

Sorry, i was so tired last night, i didn't get chance to read your last reply frpom last night. Yes, the mobilising descriptor is on level ground both inside and outside because it's in the work place which of course can be in the office, supermarket, on a building site etc etc. They assess your ability to do any type of work.

Reg35 (substantial risk) may also apply to you because of your mental health. Have a read of this. https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/2955-regulation-35-2-b-is-now-the-main-route-into-esa-support-group

As for paying someone to help fill out your forms, there are advice agencies out there that will help you for free. Those that charge people for their service make me so angry.

I hope this helps. Good luck.

[Deleted User]

Thanks for the link! Ok got you! It's about aids too isn't it which is why you suggested I cover wheelchairs which wasn't done on my form...

Yeah I'm not even sure if it's been filled in correctly... 

poppy123456

Yes it's about aids, self propellng a manual wheelchair is part of the mobilising descriptor. I would have added more detail to the form you have above but the one you have there is over 4 years old so if your conditions have got worse, it's not going to be of much use. It's a little too late to do anything about that now, it would have been better if you had done that when you first posted for advice some weeks ago.

You have the assessment coming up so try to give as much information as possible during that.

[Deleted User]

Ok thanks Poppy.

Yeah, I should have done an up to date one then but Welfare Rights were telling me it's fine for them to go off the old form and that I could update the assessor about conditions during the assessment, he said that the assessor would understand that things would have changed in the last 4 years.

Just to add, I've not cancelled any appointments in regards to the assessment, so I'm wondering if they'd postpone the assessment and allow me to fill in a new form? Probably not though with it being so close.

poppy123456

I can see where Welfare rights are coming from with this but as an ESA claimant myself, i can only advise you what i would do if this was happening to me.

There's no harm in ringing to cancel the appointment and telling them the reason why. If you can't download and print the form off then you can just write extra information on A4 paper and send this to them.

When you ring make sure you ask for the address of where you send this too because it can be sent straight to the Health Assessment Advisory Service, rather than to DWP.

You're not alone with all the anxiety this courses and i hope i've been of some help

[Deleted User]

You certainly have Poppy, thank you  

I'm going to speak to my son about it and see what he thinks. If I can just update them during the assessment, that's fine, I really just want to get the whole thing out of the way but at the same time, I want to do it correctly to avoid me having to appeal which is obviously why I'm asking so many questions and such. I want to say the right things, not the wrong things.