I've only been awarded 2 points. I secretly recorded my assessment, how can I use this as leverage? — Scope | Disability forum
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I've only been awarded 2 points. I secretly recorded my assessment, how can I use this as leverage?

allseeingeye667
allseeingeye667 Member Posts: 3 Listener
edited September 22 in PIP, DLA, and AA
Anyone got advice. I recently had PIP assessment and result was only 2 points. I have hashimoto disease. Mental health issue and 3 leg ulcers that cause me many problems. Unconfident and sufferer from anxiety in every day normal circumstances. I have a Dr a endocrinologist a VPN and a psychiatric doctor. I struggle with every day life. Damage to my brain and chemical imbalances make life hell. I cannot work fue to all this and it's not I am work shy as I dont mind working but most days it's hard to even talk to someone I've known all my life so this is a disability in a sense. My latest pip assessment I secretly recorded it as the past ones I could not prove the untruths. Just got my decision and got only 2 points. The statement on decision was full of lies. I am appealing but how should I go about using the recording as leverage in my case. I need this help. Please. Any advice would be appreciated. Desperate as I only have under 400£ to survive a month. I want to get better
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Comments

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,781 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    PIP isn't about your ability to work because people claim PIP and work. PIP is about how your conditions affect you against the PIP descriptors.
    You can't prove any assessors lies. The report they write is their opinion based on the evidence you sent, your PIP form and what you said during your assessment. Concentrating on that report isn't going to get you a PIP award, it can only damage your case. My advice is to put the report away and forget about it.
    You won't be able to use the recording unless you have it transribed and even then it's not going to get you a PIP award.
    Your first step is to request the mandatory reconsideration. (MR) You need to state where and why you think you should have scored those points. Adding a couple of real world examples of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies. Information such as, where you were, who (if anyone) seen it, what exactly happened and the consequences.
    You also mention your last assessment? Have you previously had an award or were you refused? If you were refused did you appeal that decision?
  • allseeingeye667
    allseeingeye667 Member Posts: 3 Listener
    I've tried several times with no success. Also the did tell lies and also forgot to mention things that were important. I know they were important key issues as they used them to refuse me. My friend has the points system and the recording is usable. There ir records of them being used and an assessor being sacked for misconduct. They are also implored to refuse you. I was told these things by a person in government position who advises people. The system is a shambles.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,781 Disability Gamechanger
    They are also implored to refuse you.
    Nope, that's not correct and this has be disccussed many many times here.
  • Tori_Scope
    Tori_Scope Posts: 5,996

    Scope community team

    There ir records of them being used and an assessor being sacked for misconduct. They are also implored to refuse you. I was told these things by a person in government position who advises people. The system is a shambles.
    Are you able to provide links to evidence to support these claims @allseeingeye667? Although some people unfortunately have negative experiences with assessors, it's important not to spread misinformation.
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  • MarkM88
    MarkM88 Member Posts: 1,803 Pioneering
    edited September 23
    I was told these things by a person in government position who advises people. The system is a shambles.
    I highly doubt it and if someone in a position did then they are incorrect. 
  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 10,531 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @allseeingeye667 -  & welcome to the community. I'm sorry you are having difficulty with claiming PIP. As Poppy has said, you can't really say an assessor has lied. Yes, your assessment may be 'inaccurate,' they often appear so, but you can't prove that an assessor has intentionally lied; these are 2 different things.
    As advised, put the report/decision letter away; unfortunately too many people concentrate on perceived inaccuracies to the detriment of their PIP claim.....the same with your recording. Poppy has given you the best possible advice, & disregard the person in a govt. position, who 'advises; people, yet who has given you totally incorrect info.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,781 Disability Gamechanger
    I've tried several times with no success.
    Have you ever appealed the decision? To constantly reapply using the same evidence you previously used will likely see you continue to be refused.
    expert advice is needed here, you can then tell them how your conditions affect you and they will tell you if you can score enough of points for an award.https://advicelocal.uk/
    You can have a disability but if you don't meet the descriptors, you won't score the points for an award, regardless of how many times you apply.

  • janer1967
    janer1967 Member Posts: 12,273 Disability Gamechanger
    Good luck if you are listening to your friend in gov , their advice hasn't got you very far as yet 

    I would suggest you get some expert benefit advice from welfare rights 

    If you have tried many times and not been successful it can either be you don't meet the criteria or your not presenting your case adequately 
    Here to help with my experience in hunan resources and employment rights 
  • allseeingeye667
    allseeingeye667 Member Posts: 3 Listener
    How come you most of you can say this is untrue? Believe my source is 100% and I can only assume your part of the system?
    If I was to tell you my problems and ailments you'd understand but I can I can talk fine looking in your eye and this seems to be to my detriment. Yes there was lies. I have written and recorded proof of these things. Every time I've altered my case to better my chances and been advised by a so called expert. Maybe I'm being told the wrong things. 
    I have brain trauma, mental health issues, Hashimoto's disease and when diagnosed my thyroid was already dead. I have no hormones in my system and testosterone is nil. I've been in mental hospital due to Hashimoto's messing with pituitary gland etc.
    In the report I was told I was capable of reading because I am searching for a faith system within the bible even though this is stated as online. I am crippled by my anxiety most days. I have 3 leg ulcers in my right leg.
    Yet report said I was seen walking 15 metres with limp, favouring my left leg which in nonsense if my left leg is the problem. Also because of that I am able to walk 200 metres?? How they work that out. Stated I was only on over the counter pain meds when I am prescribed two pain medications that cannot be bought over the counter. Diclofenac and amitriptyline. 
    There are many more discrepancies so let's hear what excuse you all have for the corrupt system now? Stand forward please
    Its well known they are pushed to avoid paying out. It's a government on a budget. Yet you all seem to stick up for it. Where do you and your siblings work? Atos or capita or gov
  • janer1967
    janer1967 Member Posts: 12,273 Disability Gamechanger
    I can assure you we are not part of the system 

    We are disabled people too who also claim pip and only share our experience and knowledge from our own experience 

    I only have 1 leg in a wheelchair also blind in one eye and limited vision in other amongst other things 

    We all struggle on a daily basis 

    No further comments from me good luck 
    Here to help with my experience in hunan resources and employment rights 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,781 Disability Gamechanger
    i know the people that have replied on your thread are definitely not part of that "system" we are disabled people who help others here on the community and claim various benefits ourselves.
    Please do post a link to backup what you're saying because at the moment you are stating opinion as fact and giving misinformation which isn't allowed on the community.
    You haven't answered my previous question.. here.
    I've tried several times with no success.
    Have you ever appealed the decision?


  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Connected
    edited September 24
    So.. I've been deemed fit for work twice by ATOS/DWP.. however, I know full well that at the time I had no clue about applying for ESA and that you could send evidence, I was never told this and it didn't state it on the form at that point in time.. so it was partly my own fault. I won both tribunals.

    In regards to my PIP, I was awarded enhanced for both the first time with zero problems, the second time it was a bit of a mess due to Capita which I won't bore people with, I did have my award lowered but it was overturned when we put an appeal in.

    I am not part of any system, I am a woman with both mental and physical health problems, you can tell that by my posts elsewhere on here, Poppy has been trying to help me and reassure me and has been trying to ease my anxiety. 

    I will say that the information on my PIP report was very inaccurate despite there being evidence/information etc. 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,781 Disability Gamechanger
    Amathyst said:
     I know full well that at the time I had no clue about applying for ESA and that you could send evidence, I was never told this and it didn't state it on the form at that point in time.. so it was partly my own fault. I won both tribunals.

    On the ESA50 form it tells you on page 5 what evidence to send and not to send. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/975770/esa50-capability-for-work-questionnaire.pdf

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Connected
    @poppy123456 I'm going back a long time ago, apparently from what I was told, they didn't have the info about the evidence on the form at that point *shrugs* I can't remember honestly, it was back in 2010ish. I just know it was partly my own fault.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,781 Disability Gamechanger
    edited September 24
    I’ve been through 4 assessments for ill health retirement they all agreed doctors that is that I’m unfit for work but the dwp seems to argue I am fit for work I’m repeatedly

    They are 2 different things. The WCA assesses your ability to do any type of work. This thread is also about PIP so we are going off topic here.
  • Tori_Scope
    Tori_Scope Posts: 5,996

    Scope community team

    Hi @allseeingeye667,

    As our members have noted, they're here to offer advice and support from their own personal experiences and research.

    We do ask that members provide reliable and relevant evidence when making claims, where possible. This could be a link to a credible website, or a quote from an official document, and so on. We also ask that members avoid presenting their own opinion as a fact. You can read our house rules for further information.

    This is important because there's quite a lot of misinformation out there about the benefits system, which can sometimes put people off applying or cause confusion.

    Have you submitted a mandatory reconsideration (MR) for your latest PIP assessment? If you need any advice on how to approach this, please do let us know. The best approach is often to look at the evidence you submitted, and to work out how to strengthen that or point out where you should have scored points, rather than focussing on whether or not the assessor has misrepresented what you've said. 

    I'd like to keep this thread open if possible, so that you can receive some advice on your PIP claim. However, we will close it if a constructive conversation can't be had.
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  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,781 Disability Gamechanger
    The point I’m trying to make is WCA assess ability to do any work, PIP to support people with a disability all medically assessed I presume and UC to support people looking for work or on low incomes as is working tax credits all very confusing 

    There's no medical assessment involved with either PIP or the WCA. UC is not only for those looking for work, on low income, it's also for those unable to work because of a health condition, in the same way ESA was/is. UC has replaced 6 legacy benefits.
  • MrDan
    MrDan Member Posts: 9 Listener
    You have ever right in law to record the assement.

    I know the DWP always says that you dont, but they are wrong. You do not need to tell them that you are recording it.  You can use that recording as evidence is any aspect of anything within the DWP.

    The law states you can not share it with a 3rd party, without the other parties permission. But, sharing it with anybody at the DWP is ok, because they are not a 3rd party.

    You can also use it in Court too. Ask the DWP for their consent. If they ignore you, then ask the Judge for it to be used in evidence.  The DWP will not be looked on favourablly for wasting the Courts time, by not consenting.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,781 Disability Gamechanger
    When you appeal against a benefits decision you are not taking it to Court. Some hearings maybe held in a Court building but they are Tribunals, which is completely different to Court.
    If you're going to use a recording at a Tribunal it needs to be professionally transcribed before you can use it. Even doing this, a recording will not get you a PIP award. Not sure what's meant by "The DWP will not be looked on favourablly for wasting the Courts time, by not consenting"

  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,474 Disability Gamechanger
    edited September 26
    You do not have a right in law to record anything. That is wholly incorrect. The law gives no such right. It simply doesn’t prevent you doing so because, rather obviously, it cannot. Not preventing something is not the same as having the “right” to do it.

    It is also incorrect to say you can share with DWP because they’re not a third party. When you make a recording you are not recording an organisation you are recording an individual. If you do not have the consent of that specific individual to share then any sharing will be illegal. 

    You are correct in saying that you can nevertheless apply to use a recording obtained illegally in any proceedings but unfortunately, obtained legally or otherwise, this is wholly a waste of time at lower levels of decision making because DWP nor HMCTS simply don’t have access to appropriate playback equipment with any consistency. In these instances you would, as @poppy123456 rightly observes, need a transcription. That would need to be independent and that will cost. In almost all instances it won’t be worth it and would be subject to severe scrutiny.

    Additional to this it would usually be better to record legally with two parallel recordings agreed by DWP because without that your recording will rightly be subject to scrutiny as to whether it has conveniently been edited by you in your favour. 

    There was one famous case where a claimant was allowed to use a recording obtained illegally in a tribunal. It was inferred that this was why they won. To date no welfare rights adviser has been able to obtain any evidence that that was why they won at all. There have allegedly been a couple of cases since. Again though, zero evidence that it had any impact at all.

    Finally is not correct to say you can use recordings in any proceedings. Tribunals tend nowadays to admit all available evidence. Claimants trying to get DWP evidence excluded often find this to their cost. Evidence may be given less weight but it will almost always be included rather than removed. Courts are a very different beast. An illegal recording may be admitted but it will be subject to a level of scrutiny beyond that of a tribunal and can be omitted. 

    There is no evidence courts look less favourably on a DWP case simply because of a perfectly reasonable discussion over whether evidence ought to be admitted. That would likely be an error of law.

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