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Where are we now?

onebigvoice
onebigvoice Posts: 184 Courageous
  I just wondered where we are when it comes to reusable energy and electric cars?
We are all now recycling and tryig to become eco friendly, most towns and city's have had a change in the use of cars in the city centers trying to cut emmissions.
  I have a two for one question and ask your thoughts.
  I remember years ago when everyone was incouraged to buy diesel cars and most taxi's were soon doesel engines because they said more efficent?  Now they are trying to rid us of that by introducing the " electric car "
  Now since their first introduction they have already come on leaps and bounds, having battery's that now go further on a single charge, and I know there are others that run on both petrol/electric, or hybrid's.  I want to talk about all electric cars.
  Some now going over 300 miles on a single charge.  So first question:  How far would you have to drive ot to become cost effective?  
In other words what is the cost of charging against the number of miles used against a gallon of petrol?
  One litre of petrol costs £1.33 a litre, so how much electric would I get for £1.33 as a straight comparrison of milage?
  Question 2:  Since the price of energy today went up by 12%  now much electric would you get today as apposed to yesterday?
  I note on my travels that around Cardiff there are charging points on the side of the road and at some supermarkets.  How long will it be before they start charging ( charging not charging ( cost ) )  foryou to plug into the points provided, since you can drive up an plug in of an hour or so at no cost to you?  
  Now I don't know how far an hour of electric will get you as I supose it depends on the make of car and how empty your battery's are I suppose?  Can any one help?
  I have a KIA Hybrid that is selfcharging and gives me 60.8 MPG?  £30 of petrol now lasts 2 weeks or more.  Would £30 of electric last me as long?   

Comments

  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,476 Disability Gamechanger
    We moved to a hybrid electric vehicle some years back. The net cost for us has been a reduction in expenditure of 75% on fuel with zero expenditure on electricity. The calculating you have done for wholly electric vehicles is however entire false given current prices. Right now electric wins by a country mile.
  • 66Mustang
    66Mustang Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,585 Disability Gamechanger
    Well I read that an average electric car costs about £0.05 a mile to charge up, if you pay for the electricity - of course there are free charging points too which is nice. However worst case scenario - your car that does 60mpg (if that is accurate! they are often optimistic) will be costing you about £0.10 a mile in fuel. So about half the price/double the mileage.

    I am looking forward to having an electric car as my next vehicle. My car does just about 38mpg so about £0.16 a mile in fuel. I do 15,000 miles a year which equates to £2,400 in fuel. £750 a year in electricity is a huge difference.

    What I will say is this: the price of fuel is just under two thirds tax - the fuel itself is only about £0.50 a litre. Using my car as an example what this means is for every mile I drive in my petrol car, I’m paying about £0.10 tax. If I “go electric” the govt. are losing that £0.10 a mile tax so there will have to come a stage, when most of us are driving electric cars, that they have to tax cars for every mile driven.

    However I would guess that this new tax would be applied to ICE cars as well, resulting in a kind of double tax for them, so electrics would still be cheaper.

    Figures are very approximate done in my head by the way, I’m aware they may be a bit off.
  • onebigvoice
    onebigvoice Posts: 184 Courageous
    @mikehughescq Can you explain the comment, since not knowing what else to compare it with how long is a country mile? and what is your means of calculating?  How far would you have to drive the electric car to become cost effective?  Has the car you have, need to be driven so far each day, or does it need plugging in every day ( or night ) to use cheaper electric tarriff's to become viable.  As I have heard that it can cost 35p per Kw?  ( On a fast charge )  And I don't know how that relates? 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,476 Disability Gamechanger
    I've not done any calculating as I will never drive. All done by another member of the household.

    Anyway... in terms of cost effectiveness that will clearly depend on the cost of the vehicle in the first place. However, it's not an especially complex calculation. Fuel bill reduced by 75% and that was noticeable immediately by the fact that instead of filling up every 2 weeks we filled up every 6 or more. It's not about distance. The saving becomes obvious the first time you pass the point in the month you would ordinarily need petrol and then suddenly you don't and then you still don't and then you think something is wrong and then you realise there are simply no downsides. 

    As it's a hybrid, zero charging is required. It charges itself whilst using petrol and the battery then kicks in when we're in queues or slow moving traffic. Huge savings to the point we no longer see fuel as one of the major expenditures we need to budget for even as prices soar during the current mess. 

    If it helps I know someone who has been driving wholly electric vehicles funded initially through Motability for nearly 20 years. Charging costs come nowhere near 35p. Last I recall they didn't even hit 5p. Charging point in their garage and they can regularly drive from the deep North West of England down to London without needing to charge.  
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,285 Disability Gamechanger
    People were encourage some years ago to swap to diesel as they did around 40% more miles to the gallon and the new diesel cars were far better than the old ones, back in the early 90's I had a diesel TDI that did around 55 mpg.
    Electric cars are the future and will be far "greener", so it's a win win.
    I am a person with epilepsy not an epileptic, my illness doesn't define me.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,476 Disability Gamechanger
    Much as we love our hybrid the reality is that electric cars are the solution to a problem yet to define itself. Their environmental cost easily matches and often eclipses that of petrol vehicles in terms of production, infrastructure and so on. The future simply needs to be less cars whether electric or otherwise. 
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,285 Disability Gamechanger
    One solution would be to raise the age at which people can start to learn to drive to 21, and remove driving licences at the age of 70, neither would be popular but it would take a lot of cars off the road.
    Another of course would be to improve public transport, making it cheaper and more user focused .
    I am a person with epilepsy not an epileptic, my illness doesn't define me.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,476 Disability Gamechanger
    edited October 1
    Agree with your comments re: public transport but that requires public ownership. 

    There is a lot of evidence now that more and more teenagers are not learning to drive at all or until their late 20s because of the sheer cost of it and the environmental cost. However, raising the age would have minimal impact as most don’t own their own cars and share their parents. The impact on the over 70s would be more than unpopular. It would be devastating in terms of social isolation and the practicalities of living. 

    No easy answers. 
  • onebigvoice
    onebigvoice Posts: 184 Courageous
    @woodbine While I disagree with what you say since in turning 70 Had to reapply for my licence.  I have most sections on my licence and had to retain flat bed and trailer licence.  
      I have had 3 accidents in my driving career all in the last 7 years.  One sat at a set of traffic lights ( RED ) and a small bus wanted to beat the lights so went on the inside , the lights changed but could not go any where he shunted me across the lights saying he was only doing 5 MPH?  2. Car didn't see me and turned head on straight into me on a filter .  3rd one just parked the car walked into the house and a Cardiff Bus decided to reduce the wdith of the car by squezzing down the rear to front door.
      Must have to learn to stay away from busses.   have had one speeding ticket when for the first time dowing 28 MPH because I was arguing about the speed limit.  Never had another because I souped up all the cars I have had and they could not catch me.  HA.  So why should I give my licence and reedom to drive when I am still capable of driving?
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,285 Disability Gamechanger
    Like I said not popular ideas, in 2019 35% of people under 20 had a driving licence, figure that has been slowly increasing in recent years despite as Mike says the cost.

    I had to give up my licence at the age of 38 due to my medical condition and I don't feel socially isolated or disadvantaged, and SM doesn't drive either.
    I am a person with epilepsy not an epileptic, my illness doesn't define me.
  • Cress
    Cress Member Posts: 937 Pioneering
     Never had another because I souped up all the cars I have had and they could not catch me.  HA.  So why should I give my licence and reedom to drive when I am still capable of driving?
    Eh? The HA means that's a joke right?
    Just wanted to check... :)
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,476 Disability Gamechanger
    woodbine said:
    Like I said not popular ideas, in 2019 35% of people under 20 had a driving licence, figure that has been slowly increasing in recent years despite as Mike says the cost.

    I had to give up my licence at the age of 38 due to my medical condition and I don't feel socially isolated or disadvantaged, and SM doesn't drive either.
    Good grief. It’s not about “feeling” socially isolated. It’s about being socially isolated i.e. not being able to shop; socialise; see family; get to the GP and much more. It’s not some nebulous, frivolous thing. It literally kills and that’s what taking licenses off people at a set age would do in many cases. 
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,285 Disability Gamechanger
    Well they took mine off me when I was 38 thats 24 years ago and I'm still alive and kicking Mike, there's far more to life than being able to drive and having a car.
    People often still say to me "you don't drive ? " I just shrug my shoulders and say nope. B)
    Further more SM has never driven so we don't have a car full stop, we haven't starved and as for getting to see a GP what's one of them? And we are not and never have been socially isolated.
    In my previous life i.e when I was working I drove on average around 40,000 miles a year and even 24 years ago it wasn't much fun, it must be hell on earth now.
    Until recently we had a neighbour (he's gone into sheltered accommodation now)he had a 2.4 litre jag one of only 4 ever made for export to America, a huge beast of a car, at the age of 85 he insisted on driving, sadly he had dementia and often forgot where he was, there must be many thousands like him, another example we have a neighbour almost 80 who needs both cataracts doing and he insist on driving even though he probably can't see what's in front of him.
    I am a person with epilepsy not an epileptic, my illness doesn't define me.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,476 Disability Gamechanger
    I feel equally indifferent about being unable to drive but I suggest you do an internet search on the idea that social isolation can kill. Our experience is not the general experience.
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,592 Disability Gamechanger
    I won't be driving an electric I don't like them it would proper stress me out and I can imagine the problems it will cause when everyone is plugging in and the grid can't cope and we will have loads of power cuts then what are they going to do about all the scrap engines and batteries ??
  • onebigvoice
    onebigvoice Posts: 184 Courageous
    Cress said:
     Never had another because I souped up all the cars I have had and they could not catch me.  HA.  So why should I give my licence and reedom to drive when I am still capable of driving?
    Eh? The HA means that's a joke right?
    Just wanted to check... :)
    As If I would do that?  Perish the thought......
  • onebigvoice
    onebigvoice Posts: 184 Courageous
    @woodbine,  Your is slightly different since you say they took your licence off you at 38, because of a medical condition? 
      You have now learnt after all these years to adapt.  As stated if mine was taken off me I would have no choice but to find other means of transport like busses or Taxi's, but if it was cheaper, when you include MOT's Insurance and Road TAX, not including running repairs, we would all be doing it now, as the car would be a luxuary item..
      I must admit the government are already doing their bit by making insurance policies that are expensive for new learners anyway.  Since they are more at risk to have an accident in early driving than later on.  Most policies in excess of £1000 a year.  
      If you can afford it you get a car if you can't you get attached to your dads for a year or so.
    Or end up with no insurance?  My insurance won't take more than 10 years no claims bonus and have three policies like this as I have my own car, my daughters car and one I just sold to get this disabled allowance car, I now have a year to use this or loose it.
       
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,476 Disability Gamechanger
    I won't be driving an electric I don't like them it would proper stress me out and I can imagine the problems it will cause when everyone is plugging in and the grid can't cope and we will have loads of power cuts then what are they going to do about all the scrap engines and batteries ??
    Electric car charging is unlikely to be an issue.

    https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/can-grid-cope-extra-demand-electric-cars

    Being worried in ignorance is fine. Scaremongering in ignorance absolutely is not.
  • nannymaroon
    nannymaroon Member Posts: 234 Courageous
    I wouldn't mind an electric car if I was only driving around town. I wouldn't trust it for a long drive, though. What if I couldn't find a charging place? I couldn't really walk home from another town. I wonder how much it would cost to fully recharge the battery? And how long?

    Also a friend who is sight impaired said they are so quiet that she can't hear them coming when she crosses the road. She doesn't have a guide dog.

    But I guess that we all have to change our ways to save the planet.
    I'll just have to change the way I drive to get a grip on my fears.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,476 Disability Gamechanger
    There really isn’t a charging issue. It’s essentially scaremongering by those who promote fossil fuels. We can go hybrid from the North West of Scotland to the South East of England on a tank of petrol and a battery with no change. Last time we did it, about 600 miles, a friend brought their electric car and charged up once. Would you expect to stop just once in 600 miles in a petrol vehicle. 
  • onebigvoice
    onebigvoice Posts: 184 Courageous
    There really isn’t a charging issue. It’s essentially scaremongering by those who promote fossil fuels. We can go hybrid from the North West of Scotland to the South East of England on a tank of petrol and a battery with no change. Last time we did it, about 600 miles, a friend brought their electric car and charged up once. Would you expect to stop just once in 600 miles in a petrol vehicle. 

      While I agree with you, I went for a Hybrid ( Suppose personal preference to me . )  But the Dealers were saying that it does depend on whether you have off road parking or not, since Cardiff City will not put a charging port on houses that look straight onto the street.
      I have found since that this has changed and will come out an look at each individual need with a view of installation and over the pavement cables.
      One other point not mentioned, batteries have come a long way since the first electric car and where they were good for Urban and up to 200 miles on one charge, this is now not the case, also some do rely on over night charging, or trickle charge and I didn't really look at fast charging ports or how long an almost empty battery to say half or three quater charge would take on say a journey of 600 miles?
      On the motor way as a question, if I plugged it in and went for a break in the cafe, how much charge could I expect to get?  Or if going into town shopping how would say 1 1/2 charge while shopping effect my distance.
      This is a genuine question, although I am happy with my Hybrid which returns me around 65.2 MPG, yet my other previous car was around 32 MPG.  This is my only comparrison since its self charging and don't pay for charging as it drives or brakes?   
  • onebigvoice
    onebigvoice Posts: 184 Courageous
      One other point apart from the difference in tax, but since its a disability car its included in the mobility allowance payments, and the no emmissions, ( on the electric. )  What would happen if we all went electric, would the price of electric go up as a consumable for every one else? or those that have not converted.  Could the grid be overloaded? as there are certain times of the day which are classed as peak times now?
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,285 Disability Gamechanger
    It could be that they bring back the old economy 7 tariff (if it ever went away), but I think the cost of electricity is less than a worry than the wholesale cost of gas which hit almost 380p per therm yesterday, anything over £1 a therm is seen as cause for concern.
    I am a person with epilepsy not an epileptic, my illness doesn't define me.
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,592 Disability Gamechanger
    Just have to wait and see realy my electric keeps going off in my village now lol we have had 12 power cuts in last six months 

    Only asking a question now most people who I know have a charging point outside their house and have had high electric bills but someone said that electric charging is free from a petrol station we don't have electricity car charging where I work so I don't know I did have an electric car but I do alot of driving and had a power point outside my house as there aren't many electric car charging where I live but I only lasted a month with it by 2030 I probably won't be driving so happy with my petrol and diesel 
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,592 Disability Gamechanger
    a hybrid car is self charging it runs on petrol as well as electric and will also be not be on the road in 2030 I am talking about a full electric car that only runs on electric I went to London from Wales charged it up before I left had to stop and charge it again and ran out of charge just as I got out side London  AA came out and took me to the nearest petrol station with electric charging I didn't pay that time but I paid 40.00 the first time 

    I got to London where I was going I was staying there two weeks sold my electric car got a petrol car happy days 

    I have seen electric vans but not seen an electric lorry and I couldn't imagine an electric campervan I have a diesel one that is 19ft and wished I had a petrol one instead I couldn't imagine  electric pulling it 

    All this is my opinion  a hybrid car is good because they self charge when it changes to petrol  the other thing is the cost of electric cars I couldn't buy one now they cost to much 

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