Legacy benefits to Universal Credit

tcellmutation

Hello, I currently receive legacy benefits which includes Severe Disability Premium.

I understand that they plan for everyone on legacy benefits to move onto Universal Credit by September 2024 and people will be invited to move over.

I understand that if it's a managed migration I won't lose out on any money but if I have a change of circumstances that triggers a move to Universal Credit I will lose out on money 

My question is, if I am invited to move to Universal Credit before September 2024 can I refuse the invite and stay on legacy benefits until the very last minute (September 2024)?

Thanks ?

poppy123456

Managed migration hasn't even started yet and when it does, it could be quite a few years before you're asked to apply. Once you've been invited you will have 1 month to start you're claim. If you don't start your claim by the deadline your existing benefits will stop. When you then claim UC you will not receive any transitional protection and if a health condition provents you from working you will need to send in fit notes to start the work capability assessment process off.

If a change of circumstances prompts a move before then, you will receive a SDP transitional element.

calcotti

The OBR previously based their forecasts on an assumption that managed migration would not complete until 2026 but that was pre pandemic.

At the time of managed migration the transitional protection should ensure that you do not lose benefit at the date of transfer.

If you 'naturally' migrate prior to that then, although you would get the SDP transitional element (if you meet the conditions for it), you would likely be a bit worse off.

tcellmutation

poppy123456 said:

Managed migration hasn't even started yet and when it does, it could be quite a few years before you're asked to apply. Once you've been invited you will have 1 month to start you're claim. If you don't start your claim by the deadline your existing benefits will stop. When you then claim UC you will not receive any transitional protection and if a health condition provents you from working you will need to send in fit notes to start the work capability assessment process off.

If a change of circumstances prompts a move before then, you will receive a SDP transitional element.

This is the info I have

Is there anyone who cannot claim Universal Credit?

You can’t get Universal Credit if you are getting, or recently stopped getting a benefit with a severe disability premium (SDP). If you are or have been getting SDP you can still apply for legacy benefits.

To get an SDP with a benefit, you must also get a disability benefit like Personal Independence Payment (PIP) or Attendance Allowance.

You might get an SDP with:

income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance

income-related Employment and Support Allowance

Income Support

Housing Benefit

Check your benefit award letter to see if you are getting an SDP – it usually says you are entitled ‘because you are severely disabled’. Check if you could get an SDP.

Will I be worse off on Universal Credit?

If you move to Universal Credit as part of the managed migration process you will receive a transitional protection payment. This makes sure people who are moved on to Universal Credit by the DWP don't get less money.

If you choose to move to Universal Credit or move as a result of a change in circumstances you will not get the ‘transitional protection’ payment, therefore may be worse off on Universal Credit

tcellmutation

calcotti said:

The OBR previously based their forecasts on an assumption that managed migration would not complete until 2026 but that was pre pandemic.

At the time of managed migration the transitional protection should ensure that you do not lose benefit at the date of transfer.

If you 'naturally' migrate prior to that then, although you would get the SDP transitional element (if you meet the conditions for it), you would likely be a bit worse off.

I think you are wrong because it clearly states I will not be worse off. Thanks tho

poppy123456

The information you have that prevents those who are claiming SDP from claiming UC, not longer exists and this ended on 27th January 2021. See link. https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/severe-disability-premium

As advised, if a change of circumstances prompts a move, if you still qualify for the SDP you will receive the SDP transitional element in with your UC entitlement but this erodes over time so if other elements increase the SDPTE decreases. The same applied when people transfered from Incapacity benefit to ESA.

Managed migration hasn't started yet so transitional protection doesn't exist.

calcotti

tcellmutation said:

calcotti said:

The OBR previously based their forecasts on an assumption that managed migration would not complete until 2026 but that was pre pandemic.

At the time of managed migration the transitional protection should ensure that you do not lose benefit at the date of transfer.

If you 'naturally' migrate prior to that then, although you would get the SDP transitional element (if you meet the conditions for it), you would likely be a bit worse off.

I think you are wrong because it clearly states I will not be worse off. Thanks tho

As advised, that is correct for managed migration but not necessarily for natural migration.

poppy123456

tcellmutation said:

calcotti said:

The OBR previously based their forecasts on an assumption that managed migration would not complete until 2026 but that was pre pandemic.

At the time of managed migration the transitional protection should ensure that you do not lose benefit at the date of transfer.

If you 'naturally' migrate prior to that then, although you would get the SDP transitional element (if you meet the conditions for it), you would likely be a bit worse off.

I think you are wrong because it clearly states I will not be worse off. Thanks tho

For natural migration then calcotti is correct, you will very likely be worse off.

tcellmutation

Username_removed said:

Literally tens of thousands already worse off on UC. Don't believe the propaganda. 

Also worth saying that if you are on certain legacy benefits then there are some circumstances in which managed migration will never apply provided you have no change of circumstances, which in reality is a hard trick to pull of as life is one long change of circumstances.  

What are those certain benefits you refer to?

tcellmutation

poppy123456 said:

tcellmutation said:

calcotti said:

The OBR previously based their forecasts on an assumption that managed migration would not complete until 2026 but that was pre pandemic.

At the time of managed migration the transitional protection should ensure that you do not lose benefit at the date of transfer.

If you 'naturally' migrate prior to that then, although you would get the SDP transitional element (if you meet the conditions for it), you would likely be a bit worse off.

I think you are wrong because it clearly states I will not be worse off. Thanks tho

For natural migration then calcotti is correct, you will very likely be worse off.

Natural migration meaning a change of circumstances?

calcotti

Username_removed said:

Yes, natural migration means a change of circumstances. 

As regard legacy benefits the most obvious one is contributory ESA. A claimant who has been on that for some time i.e. it's not so-called new style ESA and who has a change of circumstances could simply ask to add on means-tested ESA. UC doesn't even enter into the equation. Same with JSA. 

Presumably however if, once managed migration is complete, a contribution based ESA claimant asked to have income based ESA added they could immediately be told this is time limited and 'invited' to apply for UC.

calcotti

Username_removed said:

Nope. They might be told that but it would be wrong. The thing which ends legacy ESA and leaves UC as the only option is a new claim to ESA or UC. A claimant in receipt of contributory legacy ESA is not making a new claim for means-tested ESA as it's well-established case law that ESA is one benefit with two arms. 

I am well aware of that (especially with regard to the IB to ESA transfer fiasco). I am also well aware that somebody on C-ESA can remain on it and will not be managed onto UC. Neither of these are what I was speculating about.

What I am supposing is that as all income based ESA claimants will be told their income based ESA will end and will be 'invited' to apply for UC, in future, if a C-ESA claimant applies to have I-ESA added they will then be treated as an I-ESA claimant to be migrated across to UC.

tcellmutation

This is all Greek to me

calcotti

tcellmutation said:

This is all Greek to me

Sorry, we have strayed slightly off topic.
However I think your original question has been answered.

tcellmutation

calcotti said:

tcellmutation said:

This is all Greek to me

Sorry, we have strayed slightly off topic.
However I think your original question has been answered.

Insightful 

calcotti

Username_removed said:.. it will require a legislative change as at present there is no power to do that. 

No doubt that will come in due course - they aren’t going to want a rump of legacy income based benefits to administer.

calcotti

Username_removed said:..Simplification always produces complexity and always has. 

The rule of unintended (but predictable) consequences!

Username_removed said: There are a lot of stats on legacy claimants which say zero exist and yet they most certainly still exist. 

Indeed they do (but increasingly I am getting forgetful of some of the rules especially for Tax Credits).

Marie12

Does anyone including HMRC really know how tax credits should (supposedly) operate? 

poppy123456

Marie12 said:

Does anyone including HMRC really know how tax credits should (supposedly) operate? 

You've posted your question on the end of thread related to Universal Credit. It would be better to start your own thread and give a little more information and then i'm sure someone can help you further.

poppy123456

@Username_removed thanks for that. I must admit, although i claimed tax credits for many years while my children were students, i have very little knowledge about them.

tcellmutation

Still all Greek to me