Pip assessment. Upsetting question asked about suicide
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Of course a person wants to claim the benefits, if they didn’t they wouldn’t claim in the first place. No one is forced to claim anything they don’t want to. I’m sure there’s many people that would happily give the benefits back so they could have better health, myself included. Sadly that’s not possible and it is what it is.OverlyAnxious said:I'm not sure any of us 'want' the benefits? That makes it sound like a reward rather than a necessity to afford the costs of life.
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Hi @debr How is your daughter doing now? These questions can be really upsetting and quite confronting, especially when asked outside of a medical setting.
Unfortunately they are important for the HCP to get an idea of your daughter's current frame of mind. Not just for the assessment purpose but in terms of safeguarding and understanding risk.
Was this the first assessment your daughter has had? I'm sorry you both found it so difficult, you're definitely not alone with that.1 -
"In effect people object to the question because they feel a HCP is somehow not qualified to ask and that simply isn’t true. "That's comparing apples with oranges. The true health-care worker - a patient's GP, CPN or the like, actually cares about the patient.The Atos/Capita person, on the other hand, couldn't care less. More to the point, they are not in a doctor/patient relationship with their assessee and by no means are they holding them in a safe, therapeutic space where they might explore the topic in a sensitive manner with a view to treatment or support.In what sense is a physiotherapist, for example, trained to explore suicidal ideation?When I was asked that same question by an Atos 'HCP' (sic) I replied simply 'Yes, whenever I think of people like you'. That was the end of that topic.
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I agree it’s a question that when asked there’s some sort of discussion to make the person feel at ease not thanks next question0
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[removed by moderator - personal attack]What is interesting is your clear positioning on the matter. If you think that the crass insensitivities of the Atos/Capita HCPs,(sic), reading from the Unum algorithm, are the actions of a caring health professional then all I can say is I am glad I am not you.You keep saying 'It's that simple' which in my experience generally means the opposite. This is a complex, complicated topic which has been subject to banal reductionisms for purposes of profit maximisation. That's not really in doubt these days.As to your supposition that what I said once to an assessor was "abuse" - how extraordinarily insulting!Where in my comment did I say that what I said was untrue? I meant every word.[removed by moderator - personal attack] It wasn't 'abuse', Mike. In this case it really is that simple.
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I just feel that asking such a delicate question deserves more than thanks next question how would you feel like a pile of rubbish if your going to be honest I’m blaming the system how these assessments are carried out0
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More nonsense, but I'll leave it here. [removed by moderator]
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"I just feel that asking such a delicate question deserves more than thanks next question "Couldn't agree more. But the alleged "HCP" isn't there to treat you like a person, debr.When I explained my version of that view to the CPN with whom I was in the assessment room they went silent and when I asked if they felt they were complicit in the misery produced by the utterly discredited assessment system which couldn't happen without people like them they replied, Yes, I am.Unusually articulate and honest, that one was.0
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"how would people like them to be done?"How about humanely, with the person treated as a person and not as a profit centre to be squeezed?See the Scottish Government's replacement of PIP with Adult Disability Payment for practical applications and the replacement of Atos/Crapita with a better system.The heart of that is the SG's view that "The [new] regulations form the foundation for a new relationship between disabled people and the social security system."Assessments will be carried out as a last resort, not as a default, and there will be noinvolvement of private outsourcing companies (see above):"There will be no DWP style assessments to access disability assistance under the new Scottish social security system."and
"Decisions will be made using information gathered through the applications process including from health care providers. Should more detail be required to make decisions on an application for the new Adult Disability Payment, it will be gathered through a consultation. Such consultations will be based on a conversation between a healthcare professional employed by the Scottish Government and the client. There will be no private sector involvement in this process."
https://www.gov.scot/news/stop-to-traumatic-disability-assessments/
That would be a start, would it not?
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Anyway it’s over now and I am so proud of my daughter for holding everything together even though she was holding back tears throughout most of it2
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Thank you1
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I'm so sorry your daughter's PIP assessment was so distressing, especially when, & after, suicide was mentioned.I can only repeat part of Adrian_Scope's post,''Unfortunately they are important for the HCP to get an idea of your daughter's current frame of mind. Not just for the assessment purpose but in terms of safeguarding and understanding risk.''Mike has also said why considering your daughter's well-being as far as suicide goes (always a difficult subject, but one that needs acknowledging) is a safeguarding issue.We've had discussions before about how some with mental health issues feel let down by the PIP health care professional's assessments. I've queried how do the DWP recruit mental health nurses to do such assessments? I've also said that, & I appreciate this is just my personal opinion, how would I get an assessor that understood my particular set of problems? And I feel that that would be the case for many of us having more than one disorder, or a complex one.The system is not 'designed to be degrading,' tho many of us may feel embarrassed/upset in describing our issues; it's sometimes difficult to realise how badly you're affected. But that's what the health care professionals try to find out.....literally how your disability affects your daily life. At that point in time they are there to 'assess,' & no presumptions can be made that they don't also 'care.'The majority of people who have had replied on your thread @debr are here because they care, & have also tried to explain.0
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Yeah I know and I get it honestly I do I do not blame the assessors I blame the system there has to be a better way for both parties surely it is a job I know but this system is belittling and humiliating for anyone0
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Thread closed, pending review.
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Hi all,
I've reopened this thread as the discussion has largely remained civil, and so that @debr can share any other thoughts and updates with us if they wish. We will of course close it if a constructive discussion is no longer being had.
Discussions around suicide are always going to provoke strong reactions, as it's such a sensitive topic. Everyone's bound to have different opinions and experiences, so it's important that we all remain respectful of where other people are coming from.
Regarding the speed of our response @Cressida, reports were made about the thread after I'd left for the day at 6pm. This is why we've reviewed it this morning.
I definitely think you should feel proud of your daughter for getting through it @debr, despite her finding the process quite upsetting. How is she feeling now? You may also be interested in a campaign Scope are running at the moment called 'benefits without the fight'.
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Tori she’s a lot better thank you it was too much for me so I can only imagine what it was like for her but it is great to know she is not the only one that has had these questions asked in the assessment she said she thought that the assessor was trying to upset her and cancel the assessment because everyone I tried to explain and help her I got told I had to be quiet or she would stop the assessment0
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They asked me this question too even though I am not claiming on any mental health grounds, so maybe is a standard question that is asked.
No, they don't. It would be pointless asking someone this question if they're not claiming for mental health reasons. I don't claim for this reason and have never been asked this question because it's not related to how my conditions affect me.0 -
Yeah maybe0
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Just to mention again that Scope's 'Benefits without the fight' campaign is somewhat flawed in saying disabled people should have, 'the right to request an assessor who understands your condition,' for reasons given by both myself & Mike previously. Personally I can't see how this helps disabled people, & am surprised it's been mentioned again in this thread. We don't know the outcome of the OP's daughter's assessment, which she's just had, so how is this relevant anyway?
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