Pension Credit is a nightmare

racyguy

I'm new here and worry if my question is in the wrong place. if it is please move it for me.
Where do I start? I'm 72 and my wife is 76 and we have claimed Pension Credit since 2013. We were given an assessed income period (AIP) until October 2019.
The DWP in 2019 wrote to us saying that we had an overpayment of Pension Credit totalling £550 including a penalty of £50 for failing to report a change of circumstances (private pensions increasing each year). I appealed to the Tribunal saying that an AIP was in force but the DWP argued that the AIP had been cancelled in 2016. I won the case as the DWP could not prove to the Judge that they had notified us of that cancellation. The overpayment and penalty could therefore not be collected from us.
Two weeks ago I had a letter and then a telephone call from the DWP ( Fraud) telling me that I was overpaid again due to the failure of not notifying a change of circumstances from October 2019 to date (increases of the private pensions).
They have demanded that I supply bank statements from October 2019 to date (4 different accounts) monthly pension payments (4 annuities and 2 work pensions) for the same period.
There is no way I am able to do all of that in the time that they gave me due to disabilities (High Rate PIP Mobility and Care for myself and High Rate Care AA for my wife). 
Consequently they have now closed down the claim for failure to submit these documents.
Whilst the Pension Credit payment was only for £50 a week it also means that we now longer get any Council Tax rebate (previously it was 100%).

The question I have, which the DWP will not confirm or deny, is that when I can manage to get all of the documentary evidence together will we get the backdated £50 payments and will the Council backdate the 100% Council Tax rebate? I am thinking that the DWP can get the information themselves in any event, let us know what we owe (if anything) and start up the Pension Credit again?

I now realise why so so many people do not claim their Pension Credit entitlement if they are to be subject to this aggravation. 

I hope all of that makes sense. Thanks

Alex_Alumni

Hi @racyguy thanks for reaching out, and welcome to the forum. I'm afraid I don't have the experience to help with your question at the moment, but, I've tagged your post as unanswered to help our members find it.

Hopefully they can help advise you and answer your query, but do let us know if there's anything we can help with in the meantime.

Alex

calcotti

If the Pension Credit is backdated then it should be possible to get the CTR backdated. I think that when you supply the information to PC you can ask them to revise the decision to close the claim and if they refuse you can go through the appeal process arguing that you had reasonable grounds for not supplying the information within the requested timescale. However I am unclear why you have not informed PC about changes in your occupational pensions since 2019 as you should have been aware of the need to do so having been pursued for overpayment at that time. I can’t see how you can argue that you were not aware given the history.

They are within their rights to suspend the PC pending receipt of the information required to calculate the award correctly.

poppy123456

It does tell you on all letters that all changes must be reported. Was there any reason why you didn't report the changes?

racyguy

So many thanks for the comments. The DWP have told me that the award had been terminated and not suspended. During my last telephone conversation with them they seemed to suggest that if I wanted Pension Credit then I would have to make a new claim. But I take heart that you tell me that the new claim can be backdated anyhow!
As for not telling them of the changes since October 2019 this is strictly not correct and I may have confused the issue with you. All of my pensions are increased in either April or June. When the new annual figures was notified to me (April 20, June 20, April 21 and June 21) I sent the DWP a copy. In addition I also sent them a copy of the relevant P60's (April 20 & 21).
After the Tribunal they then wanted monthly 'payslips' for all pensions together with the bank statements. I don't get these payslips. I think that the issue is that all pensions are taxed and consequently the net amounts vary by at least 10p each month. Effectively they wanted 6 x 24 = 144 payslips in total from Oct 2019 to date.
As for not telling the DWP when the changes happen I would have to write and obtain 6 payslips from different companies every month and send them to the DWP. It was turning into a full time job. 

 many thanks for your help 

calcotti

racyguy said: But I take heart that you tell me that the new claim can be backdated anyhow!

Sorry if you read it like that, it isn't what I said. I said you can try and get them to revise the decision to stop it on the grounds that you couldn't get the information together in time due to your disabilities.

Furthermore if you have sent them the information previously and they have failed to act on it that is official error and they cannot recover any resulting overpayment due to their error. Minor variations of 10p/month are not relevant. If you have P60s and/or letters telling you in advance what you will get that should be sufficient. As you say pension companies usually only issue one or two payslips per year plus the P60.

Normally I would expect you to get a letter from each pension company at the start of the year telling you what you will get and a copy of this to be sufficient for PC purposes, possibly confirmed by P60 retrospectively. That's what you appear to have done.

racyguy

calcotti said:

racyguy said: But I take heart that you tell me that the new claim can be backdated anyhow!

Sorry if you read it like that, it isn't what I said. I said you can try and get them to revise the decision to stop it on the grounds that you couldn't get the information together in time due to your disabilities.

Furthermore if you have sent them the information previously and they have failed to act on it that is official error and they cannot recover any resulting overpayment due to their error. Minor variations of 10p/month are not relevant. If you have P60s and/or letters telling you in advance what you will get that should be sufficient. As you say pension companies usually only issue one or two payslips per year plus the P60.

Normally I would expect you to get a letter from each pension company at the start of the year telling you what you will get and a copy of this to be sufficient for PC purposes, possibly confirmed by P60 retrospectively. That's what you appear to have done.

Yes and having previously sent those documents in the DWP insisted that they do not show what I actually received each month. They want to see what the monthly net figures are for all 6 and this to be further evidenced by what was credited to the various bank accounts. 
This is my argument with them. They are asking me to write to all 6 companies each month in order to disclose to the DWP what has changed. Their words to me were "any change in the level of income received must be notified even if it is only 10p"!
Currently in total my 6 pensions pay, net of tax, £59.07 a week. At best I receive about 3% increase year on year - an increase of about £1.77 net per week over the year.
I really do believe that because I showed them up in court and got away with having to repay the overpayment they are intending to make my life more difficult than it already is.
And doing that work each month it really makes me feel that the £50 a week I get from Pension Credit is not worth it. And as I said previously it is no wonder that us oldies actually decide not to claim the benefit in the first place.

racyguy

Something I should also have mentioned I have only just realised that whatever increases we get on our state pensions between us next year comes straight off the Pension Credit award. We only get what the increase is for Pension Credit which looks to be about 1%! Effectively losing out on the difference of 2.1% Such is life on Pension Credit.

calcotti

State Pension has always been deducted from Pension Credit just as other income has. Pension Credit is intended to top up other income to provide a minimum level of income.

Pension Credit are correct in saying that small variations in income should be reported but they are not normally so unreasonable and will accept an annual figure which they convert back to a weekly amount.

racyguy

Well in my opinion they are being unreasonable to the extent of asking me to do all of the work.
However I do actually see where they are coming from. There is no way, despite telling them what the annual income will be if I cannot quantify how much tax is to be deducted from it in the future. The estimated tax that will be deducted this year is about £14.77 a week. This can vary depending on influences due to Budget changes for example. 
Surely the DWP have up to date information from HMRC computers that they can use without asking me to write all of those letters every year?

calcotti

racyguy said:

Surely the DWP have up to date information from HMRC computers that they can use without asking me to write all of those letters every year?

I don’t think they do for Pension Credit.

racyguy

calcotti said:

racyguy said:

Surely the DWP have up to date information from HMRC computers that they can use without asking me to write all of those letters every year?

I don’t think they do for Pension Credit.

As with the previous overpayment, the first I heard about it was a letter from the Pension Service enclosing details of net income received compared to actual income used ending up with a running overpayment. I telephoned them asking about the penalty which they insisted I had to pay and when asked where they had obtained all of the information about net income from 2016 to 2019 they told me that it had been obtained from HMRC!

racyguy

I do thank everyone for their comments and thinking more about the laborious work involved with the current overpayment and the years to come I have decided not to co-operate with the DWP and leave it as it is. I have however written to them suggesting that they again use HMRC and send me a final bill to include any fine etc which after checking that it is correct, I will deal direct with them in full and final settlement.
 I would like to thank Calcotti for his/her opinions and advice in particular. If their opinion is correct in only wanting the uprating letters and P60's then the Pension Service is intentionally wanting to make life difficult for me. Both my mental and physical health must take priority. However despite this advice my experience of the Pension Service is totally different and should anyone mention this benefit to me then all I can say is how I have been treated. 

I must say also that this forum is brilliant after reading around the hundreds of people being given advice. I will certainly use it again or may reply to others in the future.

Alex_Alumni

Thank you for your positive feedback @racyguy I'll pass it on the the team

We're really glad it's been so useful for you, and look forward to seeing you post in future!