COPD, PIP Application turned down

shirley9937

Afternoon.  I have joined this forum as I have a partner with severe COPD and am looking for a friendly bit of advice please.  He has applied for and been refused PIP, (it was a telephone consultation) although he was given 6 points for daily living and 4 for mobility.  I have read some threads who say something along the line that it's not the illness, but the way that the illness affects daily living that matters.  

My partner was basically turned down because the DM said that he doesn't take significant medications and that he didn't appear to be breathless during the assessment.  

Does anybody have any advice on how I get around the fact that he is severely limited in what he can do (he did score some points) and yet the DM says that the medication he takes doesn't show that he is severely limited and the fact that he hasn't had a chest infection in a while (he's barely been out of the house since COVID) .  He is under a respiratory clinic, but doesn't see the same consultant each time and his last consultation was on the phone.   His GP only sees him once a year and I don't know what else to send in as proof of his disability.  There isn't anybody who sees him on a regular basis, who would be able to confirm his disability.  I already sent a letter with his application - maybe I need to do so again.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. 

poppy123456

Hi,
Medical evidence isn’t really needed for a PIP claim. It’s only helpful if it states exactly how your conditions affect you and most doesn’t state this. 

When writing decision letters they use a lot of templates and medication is one of them. I would ignore this if I were you.

Your next step is to request the Mandatory Reconsideration. You should put this is writing stating where and why you think he should have scored those points. Then add a couple of real world examples of what happened the last time he attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to him. Include information such as where he was, what exactly happened, did anyone see it and what the consequences were. 

Timescales for MR decisions are between 2-12 weeks. 

Alex_Alumni

Hello @shirley9937 and welcome to the forum. Thanks for reaching out. To help our members advise you I've moved your post into our PIP category.

I have read some threads who say something along the line that it's not the illness, but the way that the illness affects daily living that matters.  

Yes, that's correct it is the affect on daily living that matters. If you haven't already, you can find details of the PIP descriptors here. Try to write down examples for each of these that explain how your husband is able (or not able) to carry each one out.

Some useful resources you can take a look at around challenging a PIP decision can be found at Scope, Turn2Us, and if needed, you might want to seek advice through AdviceLocal

Please let us know if we can help any further, don't hesitate to ask.

Alex

shirley9937

Thank you for your comments.  Interesting to know about the medication - I guess the fact that his prescriptions shows that he has them is enough.  I spoke to the DWP this morning and requested his full assessment (although having read threads, it seems that it's not really necessary). I asked that the return date for his appeal be extended until after Christmas, as the post is shocking.  They said that I have 13 months to send it in, but I think the sooner the better.  I will have a little sit down and put some examples of how his illness affects him daily and go from there.  Many thanks again.

Alex_Alumni

You're welcome @shirley9937, I'm glad to hear you've got a good chunk of time to appeal, but I think I agree, the sooner the better- just don't rush it

Do keep us updated with how you progress, and if you're unsure about anything, please just ask.

poppy123456

You definitely don't need the assessment report for the MR. Infact it only distracts you from concentrating on what you need to which is the real world examples i mentioned above. Concentrating on the report will not get him a PIP award. If it gets to Tribunal stage then it can harm your case if you concentrate purely on the report.

shirley9937

Good afternoon.  I thought that I would pop on here and let you know what happened after my partner was initially turned down for PIP.  After requesting a mandatory reconsideration, he was awarded the standard rate for mobility.  He scored 6 points for his daily living activities : preparing food, washing and bathing and dressing and undressing.  However, they didn't seem to take the problems he has mixing with other people seriously (in fact it's not just mixing with people, it's actually leaving the house).  He has serious problems getting out and mixing as he is anxious and depressed most of the time.  Because he seemed "pleasant in manner" and there was no sign of "low mood or anxiety" on the telephone assessment, they have decided that he can mix with others without help.  Although he didn't take any medication for depression (he had in the past, but was trying to do without) he misuses alcohol to help him cope, which the doctor is aware of.   Since the assessment, he has actually seen the doctor face to face and has been prescribed medication for his depression and anxiety.  

I am considering applying for a tribunal.  I know that he won't be awarded the higher rate of mobility, however bad his mobility is, but I wonder if it would be worth it to see if he could be awarded PIP for his living activities.  Weighing up the fact that he will have to attend a tribunal, with people watching his every move, versus maybe getting a different decision, is what I'm pondering at the moment.  And I only have just over a week to decide now.

Any advice anyone could give me, would be warmly welcomed. 

Shirley

MrJackT

Hi @shirley9937

Just wanted to let you know that I have appealed to the tribunal after not being awarded PIP. On the initial claim I was awarded 0 points. I then did a mandatory reconsideration and was awarded 7 points. This means that I was 1 point off from being awarded PIP. I then appealed this decision to the tribunal and I am now waiting to attend the tribunal. The DWP did reply to the HMCTS and they requested that all points be removed that was awarded at Mandatory Reconsideration, this to me was very confusing. I have no idea why they are doing this as they are now contradicting themselves. 

One of the activities that I am appealing is the engaging with other people face to face. I also explained to the DWP how I struggle with that activity. They must of completed ignored it as I was awarded no points, hence why I am doing the appeal. They actually said something similar to my claim, they said that I showed no anxiety on the phone and was able to answer all questions without being prompted. I do not agree with what they said. I was very anxious and I asked the HCP to repeat a few questions and to explain 1 or 2 of them in more detail. 

I have Autism so I find it very hard engaging with other people, I explained all this to the DWP and it just seems like they ignored it. 

I hope that you are successful with your appeal if you decide to appeal. 

shirley9937

Hi Jack

Your reply makes me think that the whole system stinks and the DWP are just throwing money at the appeal and tribunal stages, rather than paying people what they should be entitled to??

Requesting that the points you've already been awarded are removed sounds somewhat strange.  Like you said, how can they take away what they've already decided??

The more I think about it, the more inclined I am to go to tribunal and take our chances.  In for a penny, in for a pound.   I hope that your tribunal is successful.

calcotti

shirley9937 said:I know that he won't be awarded the higher rate of mobility, however bad his mobility is

That clearly isn't true. If he met the descriptors to score 12 points he would be awarded enhanced rate mobility.

MrJackT

Hi @shirley9937

It is definitely weird. I have no idea why they would ask for points to be removed when they awarded them. In my opinion, the tribunal should notice that and think to themselves why are they now changing the activities. 

I made a word document with all the activities I find hard where points were awarded at Mandatory Reconsideration and then I have included the activities I am appealing. I have done this so that it is easier to explain and so that the tribunal have all the facts. 

If you think your partner is entitled then you should do the appeal. If you do the appeal then you do it online and it’s pretty straight forward how to do it. 

poppy123456

MrJackT said:

 I have no idea why they would ask for points to be removed when they awarded them. In my opinion, the tribunal should notice that and think to themselves why are they now changing the activities. 

You were advised about this quite a few times. What you need to do is concentrate on the weakness of your evidence.

MrJackT

Everything I told the DWP was explained and detailed. As I mentioned I have did the word document so everything is in like one place. I copied and pasted a few activities from mandatory reconsideration and the appeal. However, I have added in more examples and explained a few other things. Then when it is the tribunal I have the detailed word document to explain to the tribunal. 

shirley9937

calcotti said:

That clearly isn't true. If he met the descriptors to score 12 points he would be awarded enhanced rate mobility.

Sorry Calcotti - I didn't make myself clear, or maybe I've misunderstood the mobility elements.  It's his mobility that's an issue.  He qualifies for the lower award as he has trouble walking, but if he were in a car, he would be able to get from A to B on his own.  

poppy123456

Difficulties walking would be part of the moving around, which doesn't consider your ability to drive. Following and planning a journey applies more to those that suffer with mental health, cognitive and sensory impairments.

shirley9937

Thank you for clearing that up Poppy.

shirley9937

Just another thought Poppy.  I was looking at ESA (contributory) and wondered if that would be a line to go down instead.  He is under retirement age, but hasn't worked for a couple of years because of ill health (he does have a small pension from the prison service).  Maybe I should have applied for that for him before PIP.  I'm so confused by all the different benefits and under which circumstances you should apply.

poppy123456

shirley9937 said:

Just another thought Poppy.  I was looking at ESA (contributory) and wondered if that would be a line to go down instead.  He is under retirement age, but hasn't worked for a couple of years because of ill health (he does have a small pension from the prison service).  Maybe I should have applied for that for him before PIP.  I'm so confused by all the different benefits and under which circumstances you should apply.

If he hasn't worked for a couple of years then it will be unlikely that he'll qualify for New style ESA. This is based on NI contributions in tax years April 2019 to March 2021. If he hasn't paid the correct amount he won't qualify.

You can check entitlement to Universal Credit but because it's a means tested benefit you will need to claim as a couple and both of your circumstances will be taken into consideration. His pension will also reduce the UC £1 for £1. If you have savings/capital of more than £16,000 you're excluded from claiming.

You can use a benefits calculator to check entitlement. https://www.entitledto.co.uk/benefits-calculator/Intro/Home?cid=fa90d442-58aa-43a8-b023-a54619c128ed

calcotti

shirley9937 said:

calcotti said:

That clearly isn't true. If he met the descriptors to score 12 points he would be awarded enhanced rate mobility.

Sorry Calcotti - I didn't make myself clear, or maybe I've misunderstood the mobility elements.  It's his mobility that's an issue.  He qualifies for the lower award as he has trouble walking, but if he were in a car, he would be able to get from A to B on his own.  

If the difficulty walking was severe enough he would get 12 points and the enhanced rate. I'm not saying he is entitled, just responding to your wording which seemed to imply that you didn't think it was possible.