Money better spent?

Adrian_Scope

Between 2017 and 2019, the government spent £120 Million on fighting disability benefit claims. What could they have spent it on for disabled people instead?

As part of our benefits without the fight campaign, we'd like to hear your honest thoughts!

janer1967

Incredible and most.of this money such a waste 

As a matter of interest how much of this money actually resulted in a win for dwp 

HiRy

Hi,

Well, with my experience with Government bodies it seems they like to use the  assessment process to twist your words, only hear or take into consideration what they want and in other ways just try to deny your claim! So what I'm trying to say is that it seems to be in the Government's nature to have a go at those who they think can't help themselves!

To answere the question directly, then yes there are much better ways to support people who are suffering by:

Training those who work within the claims department of DWP and other organisations. 

Informing the public on disability matters to hopfuly create some empathy!

Combating homelessness!

Strengthening the remote work infrastructure!

Creating more specialised treatment centres, so there more acsessable.

HiRy

  

androgynous

From 2016 to 2022 and ongoing, the DWP has been fighting the same case. Or should we say the claimants are fighting the same case. No, as the DWP are the ones who are appealing the same case for the 5th time, the same case which they have already lost 4 times, they can still appeal several times more. All taking years.

Is it right that millions of pounds are spent appealing a case when that same money could be supporting those severely disabled claimants who are fighting against discrimination?

The case that no one talks about until false stories are published from people who don't know the truth.

No one cares about those severely disabled claimants or how they manage financially.

The Government certainly doesn't.

At the same time, however much you are suffering in this country at least you have a roof over your head? For now. I keep telling myself that today, as I watch the Ukranians in tears on the news. They already live in alot more poverty than we do. They've lost everything, they've lost normality.

Things could be alot worse.

woodbine

I'd love to be able to say that a £120 million in two years could have been better spent but the truth is in the great scheme of things and govt. spending it's a drop in the ocean.
However that said they could have used the money to make sure assessors were better trained, that DM's were better trained and those answering our calls were more clued up. Had all that been done more decisions would have been correct first time.

chiarieds

if we could at the time look into the future & see who eventually won a claim with a Tribunal, then money could potentially have been saved. Unfortunately that couldn't be known. From my personal experience, I can only talk about PIP, this together with the knowledge I've gained here, shows that unfortunately some claimants haven't completed an initial claim form that illustrated their difficulty with regard to the PIP activities/descriptors, & whether they could do them reliably.

@HiRy - again, just as far as PIP assessments go, the assessor writes down their opinion, & unfortunately if the initial claim pack doesn't show a person's functional problems, only then 'may' the assessor's report carry more weight. Of course it's then up to a DWP decision maker. With PIP, many are successful, so the government is haven't having a 'go' at disabled people. A better understanding of the PIP claim forms is needed, which is where this forum helps in giving a better understanding.

Hi @a@androgynous -  to which case do you refer?

Hi @woodbine - in what way could assessors be better trained? Again, I can only speak from personal experience, but as someone who qualified as a physiotherapist, as I always mention a long time ago, then as a student I had placements with rheumatology, orthopaedics, paediatrics, geriatrics, surgical wards, a special school where I looked after 2 brothers with Duchenne Muscular Dystophy, & some amazing children with Spina Bifida, a Child Development Centre, rehabilitation, & my main interest, neurology. That's not even mentioning the physio outpatients, where we saw a diverse group of patients ranging from MS to fractures & other injuries. After qualifying I spent several months in a regional Spinal unit treating paraplegics & quadriplegics, before specialising in Cerebral Palsy, & working in a large Mental Health hospital (within 2 years). So, what more could be done?

An assessor also has to have 2 years post registration qualification. Please see: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-3-health-professional-performance

I would 'politely' argue that such an assessor has transferable skills that enable them to be in a very good position to assess functional problems.

Do I wish all could be better, yes. Does this forum help in giving good advice, yes.

woodbine

I have had assessments for ESA and PIP and both were accurate and fair, however we read time and again that many peoples experience is anything but, in fact I would venture that if all assessors did a good job this forum would be a much quieter place?

chiarieds

Unfortunately not answering your own question, i.e. how could HCP assessors be better trained? Should they train for further decades to ensure they've seen say at least 50% of known disorders?  Probably nonagenarians by then, if ever. Unnecessary; with their background they have an understanding about disability, insight, & are in a position to assess. So are assessors not doing a good job, & how could that then be rectified? Some people do have a poor experience; again I would stress this may be likely due to not understanding say the PIP descriptors, which is where this forum may help, not anything to do with the assessors per se. Of course perhaps other professions may be able to be to assess disabled people better.

androgynous

I've just realised this was an old thread and only one person originally replied. It also looks like the benefits without the fight descended into the in fighting which seems to be common here which is why i rarely post.

Perhaps Adrian_Scope has published some results from the survey of honest thoughts?

@chiarieds TP&AR and it's still a disability benefits case.

Tori_Scope

Hi @androgynous Would you be able to clarify what you mean by the 'survey of honest thoughts'? 

You can read about the benefits without the fight campaign, and see the latest news and stories, on our website.

chiarieds

Hi @androgynous - sorry to take a while to get back to you. I think this is the case to which you were referring: https://www.leighday.co.uk/latest-updates/news/2022-news/severely-disabled-benefits-claimants-win-legal-challenge-over-loss-of-income-caused-by-move-on-to-universal-credit/

androgynous

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/490542#Comment_490542

I'm sorry I haven't replied. It's been another tiring week chasing issues with the D*P and I have to take a rest from it all before it destroys me.

I can't clarify because the link posted by Adrain @ Scope has now been removed, but a definition of a survey is a research method used for collecting data from a predefined group of respondents to gain information and insights into various topics of interest.