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Pip Tribunal representation

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Karawen
Karawen Community member Posts: 62 Courageous
I was hoping for a bit of advice on my upcoming PIP tribunal, 08/02/22.

I've had representation for my MR from Muscular Dystrophy UK and they've been brilliant however, the lady I've dealt with is unable to represent me on the video call on the date of tribunal due to a clash of commitments.

We've spoken and gone through things and she'll support me up to the tribunal date but just can't attend on the day.  We'll also catch up afterwards.  I'm quite used to standing up in front of people and talking as I do it for work and my disability is a physical one, so while I'm confident to talk about myself and how I'm affected when asked, I can't help but wonder whether or not this is likely to have a negative impact on the potential success?  As I know that with representation, chances of success are lower than with.

It's worth noting that the DWP made the MR decision based on the original assessment rather than my MR documents as they said I'd had plenty of time to respond but hadn't (although it's clear from the bundle "facts" that they'd had the MR documents 5 weeks before decision).  So the plan is to use that information at tribunal stage.

Any advice would be hugely appreciated 🙏🏼.


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Comments

  • Karawen
    Karawen Community member Posts: 62 Courageous
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    Just to add, I've also submitted additional evidence to support my appeal but MDUK have helped with this too.
  • Karawen
    Karawen Community member Posts: 62 Courageous
    edited November 2022
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    Thanks for your input @Username_removed, I was hoping you'd respond!

    Reflecting back, I think it has been mostly support and advice they have provided.  They provided a letter of support which detailed the physical limitations anyone with my condition faces which supports the anecdotal evidence that I submitted at MR stage. 

    My anecdotal evidence has focused on the descriptors and how my condition affects me day to day so I feel that I have this basis covered... I haven't gone with the focus of my worst day but focused on my typical day.  Plus I've included a diary.

    Would you be able to explain the role of a representative at tribunal if they aren't allowed to speak?  My understanding was that they provide the support and advice up to tribunal and support just by being there but the tone of your message indicates that is incorrect?

    Thanks
  • Karawen
    Karawen Community member Posts: 62 Courageous
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    Actually @Username_removed I think I've found the answer to my question as you've posted on another thread that representatives can speak just can't speak for you...
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 56,998 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2022
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    Karawen said:
    They provided a letter of support which detailed the physical limitations anyone with my condition faces

    The problem with this is PIP isn't awarded based on any diagnosis. Everyone is affected differently and you'll never get 2 people the same.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Karawen
    Karawen Community member Posts: 62 Courageous
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    Thanks for your response @poppy123456, I completely agree however, the support letter details how people with my condition have muscle wastage in the upper arms and around the scapula (as well as other muscle groups) which impedes daily living.  For example it prevents raising your arms above your head without any degree of difficulty, if it can be done at all depending on the extent of the muscle wastage.  It's degenerative so will only get worse.

    This then supports my evidence where I go on to explain in detail the tasks that I cannot do such as wash my hair or dress my upper body because I cannot raise my arms above a 90 degree angle for example.

    So although the letter of support details the physical limitations (as the conditionis rare and rarely understood), my anecdotal evidence goes that step further to explain how these limitations affect me.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 56,998 Disability Gamechanger
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    What I’m saying is information about a condition itself is not evidence.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • AndrewHall
    AndrewHall Community member Posts: 287 Pioneering
    edited January 2022
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    @Username_removed

    What an excellent write up. I have learn a lot today. 

    I heard about a case where the Tribunal put up a note as evidence against a PIP appellant. The FtT decision was overturned at the UT because the FtT did not establish if the Note writer ever met the appellant. Turns out the writer was a hater.
    Never allow DWP assertions to define you. They never have evidence of your true circumstances.
  • Karawen
    Karawen Community member Posts: 62 Courageous
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    Wow! @Username_removed that is an incredibly comprehensive explanation!

    I can really see where my case may be a bit weak in areas so I'll pull out all the stops after work to correct them.  Luckily I should just about have enough time to do so.

    Thank you again ❤.
  • calcotti
    calcotti Community member Posts: 10,010 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2022
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    Mike, thanks for that explanation. I have occasionally repped but found the above description/explanation very helpful.  Made the mistake at my first tribunal of trying to interject part way through tribunal but glad to say that since then have behaved much more in line with your final sentence "I would consider the best outcome being when as a rep you’ve put in a written sub and on the day had to say nothing at all".

    Karawen, some claimants find the presence of a rep reassuring but if you are able to express yourself clearly you are not disadvantaged by not having a rep. The tribunal will not be trying to trip you up. Their questions will all be with the intention of helping them understand the difficulties you have in carrying out the prescribed activities to the required standard on the majority of days and you should respond with that in mind.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • Karawen
    Karawen Community member Posts: 62 Courageous
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    Thank you @calcotti I certainly feel as though I can go it alone provided I've prepared in the right way.  I'll be using Mike's response above as a guide that's for sure!

    Thank you everyone, I'll let you know how it goes 🤞🏻
  • nasturtium
    nasturtium Community member Posts: 376 Pioneering
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    @Adrian_Scope @Alex_Scope Would it be a good idea to place this forum thread as a sticky thread so it does not get lost in the many posts on this forum. The information that @Username_removed has provided would be of great value to people who are seeking information on there tribunal. The information that Mike has provided can also be very good for people who are starting a new claim.

    I do not post here much as you may see but I think the information Mike has provided would be very valuable information to scope members.

    Thank you for reading.
    Nasturtium
    How to challenge a PIP award that has been reduced at Review https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/696285#Comment_696285
  • Ross_Alumni
    Ross_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,652 Disability Gamechanger
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    Hi @nasturtium

    Thanks for posting, I'm glad that you, as well as others on this thread including the OP @Karawen, have found Mike's reply helpful, it certainly is thorough, informative and I'm sure would be helpful to others going through a tribunal as you suggest.

    Scope does have some general information pages relating to benefits, and it is our intention to have some updated sticky posts on the community to cover FAQs or significant topics that are posted about often on the community, so this sort of useful information is something that we do hope to have in a thread to link to at some point soon.
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  • calcotti
    calcotti Community member Posts: 10,010 Disability Gamechanger
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    Username_removed said:.. my appellant punched out the DWP PO. ..
    Would have loved to have seen that. The only occasion I have had a PO present the judge (or possibly one of the other members of the tribunal) effectively told them they were talking nonsense and then ignored them.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • MarkM88
    MarkM88 Community member Posts: 3,127 Connected
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    What’s a PO? 
  • calcotti
    calcotti Community member Posts: 10,010 Disability Gamechanger
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    MarkM88 said:
    What’s a PO? 
    Presenting Officer (apologies for using abbreviations - no reason why you should know). A presenting Office is a DWP representative and may be present at a tribunal.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • AndrewHall
    AndrewHall Community member Posts: 287 Pioneering
    edited January 2022
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    calcotti said:
    Username_removed said:.. my appellant punched out the DWP PO. ..
    Would have loved to have seen that. The only occasion I have had a PO present the judge (or possibly one of the other members of the tribunal) effectively told them they were talking nonsense and then ignored them.
    It is odd that the DWP who is supposed to administer benefits fairly is acting as the obstacle. The PO deserved to be punched,  I must say.
    Never allow DWP assertions to define you. They never have evidence of your true circumstances.
  • MarkM88
    MarkM88 Community member Posts: 3,127 Connected
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    calcotti said:
    Presenting Officer (apologies for using abbreviations - no reason why you should know). A presenting Office is a DWP representative and may be present at a tribunal.
    Thank you. No need to apologise. I just couldn’t work it out. Now I understand. 
  • calcotti
    calcotti Community member Posts: 10,010 Disability Gamechanger
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    Apologies to Karawen - we have wandered slightly off topic!
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • AndrewHall
    AndrewHall Community member Posts: 287 Pioneering
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    MarkM88 said:
    What’s a PO? 
    Presenting Officer. The DWP's representative at the Tribunal hearing 
    Never allow DWP assertions to define you. They never have evidence of your true circumstances.
  • emc123
    emc123 Community member Posts: 76 Courageous
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    I'm eager to read Mike's comments since everyone is saying how helpful they are but they're not visible can I see them anywhere please x
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