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My doctor instead of writing a PiP support letter said no this surgery doesn't do them anymore

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Ragnar
Ragnar Community member Posts: 2 Listener
edited February 2022 in PIP, DLA, and AA
My doctor instead of writing a PiP support letter said no this surgery doesn't do them anymore but we used to do them for a charge but no more instead he said I could come in and say to him and he would write it down on my medical records and when the Tribunal ask for them or DWP everything would be noted anyone else been asked by there doctor this way? As ive already got my medical file's am not sure if the tribunal or DWP have them as he say or I think the doctors have to ask for my permission first? Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks

Comments

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 57,159 Disability Gamechanger
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    Hi,
    A letter from a GP isn't the best evidence you can send to be honest. Your GP doesn't spend any time with you to see you dress/undress, wash, use the toilet, cook etc etc. If you tell them what to write in a letter that's not really evidence either.
    They don't usually request any medical records theirself, it's your responsibility to prove you qualify and not theirs.
    It's never too late to get representation and/or expert advice, start here. https://advicelocal.uk/

    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Ragnar
    Ragnar Community member Posts: 2 Listener
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    Hi poppy123456 I've seen in a number of forums etc it make's big difference a doctor's letter, medical records etc the tribunal actually comes to a decision on this alone due to the lack of other recent evidence like me ive no recent medical evidence just MRIs, scan's etc 3 year's ago, and medication someone is taking too. I just find it hassle why not just right a short letter ive been seeing the same doctor for year's but he wants me to come in and say what I find hard to day from day unless he wasn't listening to me all these years look at the medication am taking and look at my medical records. Than I can see it from there point of view too. I have adviser am going to let them know on Monday am just really not well the worst ive been year's but that's the last thing you say at a tribunal. Thanks for your reply and advice it's much appreciated. Thanks
  • Moga
    Moga Community member Posts: 11 Connected
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    The most important thing are your medical records (MR) from your GP surgery. They are evidence that you were diagnosed with a certain condition. They show more info than any flimsy doctors' letter. Get them as early as possible, and also make a copy for yourself. If treatments are ongoing, continue to ask for updates. Medical records are normally not free of charge. It depends on your surgery what they charge you for it. Alternatively, you can ask for your Summery Care Record. This is a short-form of your MR. They are normally free of charge; also when you request further updates. Also bear in mind, that you have already given permission to access your health records after signing your PIP/ESA application form. There's a section where you normally sign to allow DWP to contact your doctors. DWP and Capita can phone your health care professionals anytime. Why the benefit claimant has to provide his MR in addition is something I haven't really fully understood yet. 
  • MarkM88
    MarkM88 Community member Posts: 3,127 Connected
    edited February 2022
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    Moga said:
    The most important thing are your medical records (MR) from your GP surgery. They are evidence that you were diagnosed with a certain condition. They show more info than any flimsy doctors' letter. Get them as early as possible, 
    Very rarely, if at all, because PIP is not about a diagnosis and your GP does not see you carry out day to day activities for example going to the toilet, cooking a meal or bathing. They wouldn’t of commented on this on your medical records. 

    So all your records are going to show really is confirmation of diagnosis, test results, etc, which are not normally  in dispute. 
    Moga said:
    Medical records are normally not free of charge. It depends on your surgery what they charge you for it. Alternatively, you can ask for your Summery Care Record. 
    They are free, see the below link. 

    There's a section where you normally sign to allow DWP to contact your doctors. DWP and Capita can phone your health care professionals anytime. Why the benefit claimant has to provide his MR in addition is something I haven't really fully understood yet. 
    Very rare they contact any of them though. The onus is on the claimant to provide any appropriate evidence. 

    The medical records are not required as already explained above. So the claimant does not need to provide them nor under any obligation to. 

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 57,159 Disability Gamechanger
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    PIP isn't about a diagnosis and a diagnosis is often not in question. Medical records often state the basics like diagnosis, treatment, medication  etc etc which again isn't useful.
    Moga said:
    Medical records are normally not free of charge.
    This isn't correct. You can request your medical records free in the UK. https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/about-the-nhs/how-to-access-your-health-records/

    Moga said:
    There's a section where you normally sign to allow DWP to contact your doctors.
    Yes there is on the PIP2 form, however, they very rarely contact anyone for any evidence. The onus is on the claimant to prove they qualify.
    Moga said:
    DWP and Capita can phone your health care professionals anytime.

    OP is at Tribunal stage so this isn't relevant. Even if they weren't at this stage, they very rarely contact anyone.
    What you need to do is give a couple of recent real world incidents of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to you. Include information such as where you were, what exactly happened, did anyone see it and what the consequences were.
    There are plenty of Tribunal threads here on the conmunity with lots of very useful advice. This thread here is just one of many. https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/87932/pip-tribunal-representation/p1


    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Alex_Alumni
    Alex_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,561 Disability Gamechanger
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    Hi @Ragnar welcome to the community, thanks for posting your question :)

    Have our members replies been helpful, or is there anything you're still unsure of? I wish you the best of luck for your ongoing PIP application, and would encourage you to continue speaking with your adviser.

    You mention that you're really not well, I'm sorry to hear, could I ask what support are you currently getting for the way you're feeling?

    If you feel there's anything further we can help with, please do let us know.

    Alex
    Online Community Coordinator
    Scope

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  • Moga
    Moga Community member Posts: 11 Connected
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    PIP isn't about a diagnosis and a diagnosis is often not in question. Medical records often state the basics like diagnosis, treatment, medication  etc etc which again isn't useful.
    Moga said:
    Medical records are normally not free of charge.
    This isn't correct. You can request your medical records free in the UK. https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/about-the-nhs/how-to-access-your-health-records/

    Yes, it's true they should normally be free of charge, 👉 but ...

    My MR were free of charge the first time I requested them. But GPs can ask for a fee if you repeatedly request them. My updated records would have cost £50 once I reached tribunal stage. I've read in other forums that some GPs charge up to £150 and more when you request MR. I tried to complain about this to the health care trust and to my GP surgery. As the complaints procedures were lengthy and too complicated for me to navigate, I dropped my complaints. The practice manager insisted that the surgery can charge the £50, and if I didn't like it, I could register with another GP.
    Moga said:
    There's a section where you normally sign to allow DWP to contact your doctors.
    Yes there is on the PIP2 form, however, they very rarely contact anyone for any evidence. The onus is on the claimant to prove they qualify.
    Moga said:
    DWP and Capita can phone your health care professionals anytime.

    OP is at Tribunal stage so this isn't relevant. Even if they weren't at this stage, they very rarely contact anyone.
    What you need to do is give a couple of recent real world incidents of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to you. Include information such as where you were, what exactly happened, did anyone see it and what the consequences were.
    There are plenty of Tribunal threads here on the conmunity with lots of very useful advice. This thread here is just one of many. https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/87932/pip-tribunal-representation/p1

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 57,159 Disability Gamechanger
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    Medical records are available digitally for free, not sure why you would need to repeadetly request them for this reason.
    If you want paper copies then yes they can charge you.
    Medical records are only useful if something in them states clearly exactly how your conditions affect you against the PIP descriptors. Most medical records just state the basics, which isn't particually helpful.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Moga
    Moga Community member Posts: 11 Connected
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    Medical records are available digitally for free, not sure why you would need to repeadetly request them for this reason.
    If you want paper copies then yes they can charge you.
    Medical records are only useful if something in them states clearly exactly how your conditions affect you against the PIP descriptors. Most medical records just state the basics, which isn't particually helpful.
    poppy123456
    They are not digitally available where I live. Here, I have to request them in writing and pay for the paper copies.

    Based on my diagnosis in my MR and associated symptoms, I linked them to all PIP descriptors and drafted my answers. I also read the ICD-10 (International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems), used their descriptions and medical terms which best described my disabilities, and drafted my answers for the forms and assessments. 
  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Community member Posts: 16,173 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2022
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    Hi @Moga - as Poppy & Mark have said, PIP isn't about any diagnosis/diagnoses; you simply list them in your initial claim form, & they would rarely be questioned then or later, so why linking to the ICD-10 (now ICD-11) would be relevant, I'd question.
    With any disorder, people are affected differently, & some people simply don't have a diagnosis, so PIP is therefore about any difficulties you face with your functional ability to perform any applicable activity/descriptor reliably the majority of the time; general info about any disorder is simply not needed.
    In not only my opinion, but some Drs, the ICD simply does not encompass all that would be relevant to an individual. Speaking personally, the finding that one of my disorders is linked in some instances (statistics currently unknown) to another, the consensus by leading specialists is that this is being constantly evaluated, i.e. 20 years ago they thought they knew a little about both disorders, 10 years ago what was considered a lot  more, but are still learning....,,,
  • Moga
    Moga Community member Posts: 11 Connected
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    chiarieds said:
    Hi @Moga - as Poppy & Mark have said, PIP isn't about any diagnosis/diagnoses; you simply list them in your initial claim form, & they would rarely be questioned then or later, so why linking to the ICD-10 (now ICD-11) would be relevant, I'd question.
    With any disorder, people are affected differently, & some people simply don't have a diagnosis, so PIP is therefore about any difficulties you face with your functional ability to perform any applicable activity/descriptor reliably the majority of the time; general info about any disorder is simply not needed.
    In not only my opinion, but some Drs, the ICD simply does not encompass all that would be relevant to an individual. Speaking personally, the finding that one of my disorders is linked in some instances (statistics currently unknown) to another, the consensus by leading specialists is that this is being constantly evaluated, i.e. 20 years ago they thought they knew a little about both disorders, 10 years ago what was considered a lot  more, but are still learning....,,,
    @chiarieds
    PIP is not directly about diagnosis and disorders, but you still need to know all your symptoms and how they affect your mobility and daily living. The descriptions in the ICD-10 helped me a lot to describe my difficulties I face with my functional ability. They were the building blocks to explain and describe in my own words what difficulties I face with my functional ability; and if I can do them safely, reliably, aided or unaided, and so on. Of course, everyone approaches their PIP claims and assessments differently. But from my experience, it was still important to know every detail of my diagnosis and the symptoms associated with them. I've recently had my second assessment and felt much calmer and confident to tackle their difficult questions. 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 57,159 Disability Gamechanger
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    I'm going to have to agree here with @chiarieds i can't possibly see how linking yourself to the ICD-11 can really help here because we are all affected differently by these conditions. You won't find 2 people the same. When claiming PIP sending information about a condition itself isn't help and is not classed as evidence.
    If you have a diagnosis then surely you know everything about it and exactly how that condition impacts your life.
    If you have a look through hundreds of posts on here you will see plently of advice regarding anecdotal evidence. A couple of real world incidents of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to you. Include information such as where you were, what exactly happened, did anyone see it and what the consequences were.

    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Community member Posts: 16,173 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2022
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    Hmmm....you don't need to know 'everything' about your disorder; not everyone does, nor do they need to; it literally is, as, the claim pack says, 'How your disability affects you.'
    If you're having to search/link to the ICD, this suggests you don't know your disability very well, & are relying on the symptoms suggested, which I'm sure you don't intend.
    We have some great people on here who give the wealth of their benefits knowledge, Poppy included. You might have a look at PIP advice in the forum, which I hope helps. Perhaps start here: https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/56365/pip-form-filling

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