Universal credit and fit notes

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john920
john920 Community member Posts: 24 Connected
Hi there ,I wonder if anyone can help me with this. I am registered sight impaired since last year, I'm totally blind in my left eye and have limited vision in my right. I get pip , in the esa support group and also get universal credit for my rent. As I'm in the esa support group I now no longer have to submit fit notes for the time being , universal credit still request them, seems a bit strange and contradictory.  My sight loss won't change and that is what my fit notes say " vision loss". I asked my work coach and she didn't know and never got back to me about it. Will I always have to request fit notes from my Dr if I get universal credit?
Thanks
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  • calcotti
    calcotti Community member Posts: 10,005 Championing
    edited March 2022
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    john920 said: As I'm in the esa support group I now no longer have to submit fit notes for the time being , universal credit still request them, seems a bit strange and contradictory.  
    Something isn't right here. If you are in the ESA Support Group you should be treated as having LCWRA for UC purposes and not required to provide Fit Notes.

    When did you claim ESA? When did you move into the Support Group?
    When did you claim UC? When did you report your health conditions to UC?
    If you were already getting ESA did you tell UC?
    Does your UC calculation include the LCWRA element?
  • john920
    john920 Community member Posts: 24 Connected
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    I live in Scotland, I dunno if rules are slightly different? 
    I first started claiming uc in May 2021, esa new style August 2021, I was still employed and was on half pay and Statutory Sick Pay had ended. I have a dual claim for uc and esa. I got my work capability assessment around November and then a few weeks later in December they decided I had limited capability for work and put me in the support group and this no longer need to provide fit notes. 
    I've kept uc updated about my circumstances, but I still get notifications asking me to provide fot notes.  Basically I get my rent paid from uc and esa is money I live off. My work coach doesn't ask me to look for work due to me being in the support group 

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 57,304 Championing
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    Your UC should include the LCWRA element. The ESA is being deducted in full from your UC entitlement too so not paying you then LCWRA element is wrong. Leave a message on your journal under the payment section and tell them you're in the Support Group for ESA but you don't have the LCWRA element added.
  • calcotti
    calcotti Community member Posts: 10,005 Championing
    edited March 2022
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    Your UC should include the LCWRA element. The ESA is being deducted in full from your UC entitlement too so not paying you then LCWRA element is wrong. Leave a message on your journal under the payment section and tell them you're in the Support Group for ESA but you don't have the LCWRA element added.
    Completely agree with this advice in principle. That's where I was heading with the questions I asked. Looks as if your UC claim may have been incorrectly processed. Once the WCA was completed the decision should have been applied to both the ESA and UC claim. However you didn't actually answer the question about whether or not your UC statements include the LCWRA element.

    If you declared your health condition at the start of your UC claim in May 2021 then you should be due the LCWRA element from your September or October payment (depending in the exact date in May you claimed). 

    Could you say how your UC statement is made up. Can you also confirm whether or not you reported your health condition at the time you made the UC claim in May.

    john920 said:
    I live in Scotland, I dunno if rules are slightly different?
    Not for UC and ESA.
    ..you're in the Support Group for ESA but you don't have the LCWRA element added.
    There are short periods where according to DWP guidance it is possible for a claimant to be in ESA Support Group and not receive UC LCWRA. I believe the guidance is wrong but to assess whether or not that is a possible issue we do need know when UC were informed about the health condition (which is why I asked in my earlier reply).
  • john920
    john920 Community member Posts: 24 Connected
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    Hi, thanks for all the advice and information,  I've always informed uc of my sight loss and submitted fit notes from the start of my claim, to be honest im not sure about limited capacity to work with uc,  all I get from them is the housing element paid in full which is £338  a month , all other money I get is the higher rate of esa as om in the support group, 
    I've left a message for my work coach regarding still submitting fit notes , hopefully someone will shed light on it.

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 57,304 Championing
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    Check your statements and it will tell you exactly what elements you claim and the deductions made for your ESA. 
  • HiRy
    HiRy Community member Posts: 19 Connected
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    I stated both my mental and physical health conditions when I first claimed U.C and they have not asked me to do the  LCWRA assessment over 2 years later!

    But what they will do is keep on telling me I have to go to an appointment, too much movement will cause my condition to become painful for about 4 hours and this is having a sick note that states 'not fit for work'.

    Also being in public would make my anxiety worsen!

    They clearly don't care they only stop treating you like dirt when you keep on reporting them but carry on harassing you and saying 'let me know if there is any issue getting to your appointment'!

    Which sounds a lot like gasslighting to me.
  • HiRy
    HiRy Community member Posts: 19 Connected
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    Oh and my work coach ignores my enquiry of having home appointments and keeps threatening to sanction my money.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 57,304 Championing
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    HiRy said:
    Oh and my work coach ignores my enquiry of having home appointments and keeps threatening to sanction my money.

    Home appointments for what? I've not known of them do home appointments for work commiments.
    HiRy said:
    I stated both my mental and physical health conditions when I first claimed U.C and they have not asked me to do the  LCWRA assessment over 2 years later!


    Have you actually "reported a change of circumstances"? then sent in fit notes from your GP? When you claim UC you are classed as a job seeker until a decision on a work capability assessment says otherwise. It's a work coaches discretion whether they turn off work commiments. Some do, some don't and others will reduce them.
  • john920
    john920 Community member Posts: 24 Connected
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    Check your statements and it will tell you exactly what elements you claim and the deductions made for your ESA. 
    All it says I get the standard allowance, all my esa deducted from uc, they said in a message to me that an esa wca is not an esa wca.  Like i say I've always submitted for notes from the start of my claim,  I've asked someone to contact  me for clarification 

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 57,304 Championing
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    @john920
    Both WCA's are exactly the same and when you claim both ESA and UC you will only have 1 assessment.
    I don't understand when you say all you get is standard allowance because if you're claiming UC as a single person then your ESA deductions would reduce your UC to zero, unless you're claiming for help with your rent in your UC.
  • HiRy
    HiRy Community member Posts: 19 Connected
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    @poppy123456

    Yes I have 'reported a change in circumstance' and mentioned both said conditions I mentioned and others and still my work coach doesn't care!
  • john920
    john920 Community member Posts: 24 Connected
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    @john920
    Both WCA's are exactly the same and when you claim both ESA and UC you will only have 1 assessment.
    I don't understand when you say all you get is standard allowance because if you're claiming UC as a single person then your ESA deductions would reduce your UC to zero, unless you're claiming for help with your rent in your UC.

    That's pretty much it, uc take esa of my standard allowance which leaves the housing element which os roughly £330 a month, I get £114 from esa weekly as I'm in the support group which is the money I live off. I still have to submit fit notes to uc even though I've had my work capability assessment and no longer have to submit them to esa. My work coach had stated in the past she doesn't really know anything about esa as she deals with UC 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 57,304 Championing
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    You should put a message onto your journal under the payment section and ask about the LCWRA element. Tell them that you’re in the Support Group for ESA and the money for that is being deducted from your UC and you want the LCWRA added to your claim. 
  • john920
    john920 Community member Posts: 24 Connected
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    You should put a message onto your journal under the payment section and ask about the LCWRA element. Tell them that you’re in the Support Group for ESA and the money for that is being deducted from your UC and you want the LCWRA added to your claim. 
    Will do, thanks for all your advice
  • john920
    john920 Community member Posts: 24 Connected
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    You should put a message onto your journal under the payment section and ask about the LCWRA element. Tell them that you’re in the Support Group for ESA and the money for that is being deducted from your UC and you want the LCWRA added to your claim. 
    Phoned esa today they were very helpful. They have a team that are going to contact uc to tell them I'm in the support group as I've had my wca  and shouldn't have to submit fit notes to them from now on. 
    Back in December when I was put in the support group I was informed I'd get £114 a week instead of £74, not that it matters it all comes of my uc anyway . I'm no better off, give you an increase then take it off elsewhere 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 57,304 Championing
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    Glad it's being sorted.
    john920 said:
    You should put a message onto your journal under the payment section and ask about the LCWRA element. Tell them that you’re in the Support Group for ESA and the money for that is being deducted from your UC and you want the LCWRA added to your claim. 
     I'm no better off, give you an increase then take it off elsewhere 
    Of course you're better off because you'll also receive the £343 extra in your UC. At the moment the full amount is being deducted from your UC.
    If it wasn't deducted then you'd be receiving it twice, which isn't right.
  • john920
    john920 Community member Posts: 24 Connected
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    Glad it's being sorted.
    john920 said:
    You should put a message onto your journal under the payment section and ask about the LCWRA element. Tell them that you’re in the Support Group for ESA and the money for that is being deducted from your UC and you want the LCWRA added to your claim. 
     I'm no better off, give you an increase then take it off elsewhere 
    Of course you're better off because you'll also receive the £343 extra in your UC. At the moment the full amount is being deducted from your UC.
    If it wasn't deducted then you'd be receiving it twice, which isn't right.
    I'm a bit confused, I just got my uc statement that's says it's taking off £497 which is the full amount of my esa,  my total allowance. My uc allowance which is includes my rent is £663.77. 
    This month uc are paying me £166.34 , 
    So my esa and the amount from uc both add up to my allowance of £663.77. The woman from esa said anything I get from them will be taken off uc, is this right?
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 57,304 Championing
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    john920 said:
    Glad it's being sorted.
    john920 said:
    You should put a message onto your journal under the payment section and ask about the LCWRA element. Tell them that you’re in the Support Group for ESA and the money for that is being deducted from your UC and you want the LCWRA added to your claim. 
     I'm no better off, give you an increase then take it off elsewhere 
    Of course you're better off because you'll also receive the £343 extra in your UC. At the moment the full amount is being deducted from your UC.
    If it wasn't deducted then you'd be receiving it twice, which isn't right.
     The woman from esa said anything I get from them will be taken off uc, is this right?

    Yes, that's correct, that's why there's a £497 deduction in your UC.
    Your UC statement should read. Standard Allowance single person (if over over 25) £324.84 or £257.33 if under 25... LCWRA element £343.63. housing element XX .. then the ESA deductions.
    Have a look again at your statement and tell me exactly what elements you have on there please.
  • calcotti
    calcotti Community member Posts: 10,005 Championing
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    Sounds like the LCWRA element may still be missing.