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Claiming pip 1st time advice needed please

schoolmum

Hi everyone hope you are all keeping safe and as well as possible.
This is about claiming PIP for first time.
If this has posted about 6 times im sorry as iv forgotten how to post.

If @Poppy123456, @Adrian_Scope or @Chiariads
are reading this I remember i chatted with you all a few years ago and you were all so extremely helpful and supportive so il see if i can copy you in.

I am hoping to get a few replies and advice to help me with my pip application. Sorry this will be a real long post. I do get esa( im in support group).
I rang up for a pip form last september and hubby was going to fill application in as I find writing very difficult and painful but I can chat while he writes and texts. We were then quite poorly and so didn't do it. I rang up and they very kindly extended the return date.
We were both extra poorly on and off for a while so I asked for extention again. When we both finally recovered enough to complete together I rang them and explained my hubby was over his pneumonia etc and the man I spoke to said no problem my file had been marked AS standing for additional support needed so he didn't need to extend it further and to return when we could.

My hubby finally posted it sign for proof of delivery etc and I had put in some very recent consultants letters and told them I got awarded 15 marks at my esa assessment but the nurse didn't examine me as she said she had enough info and could see the pain and discomfort I was in so didn't want me to have even more discomfort.

Then just days later out of the blue I got a text to say...........
We've received the written report of your PIP assessment. We will write to you once we've made a decision on your PIP. As a guide you should hear from us within 8 weeks. You don't need to contact us unless any of the details you gave us have changed. Thank you.

I knew they couldn't have received it and scanned it onto the system that quick so I rang them up and explained my hubby had only posted it 2 days before and I hadnt been for an assessment yet so was the text sent in error.

The lady I spoke to couldn't really understand it herself as she said my completed form wasn't on the system but she would see what could have happened. She came back and said my claim had been sent to an assessor who had asked my GP for a factual report and that was what was on the system. She said someone had pushed the wrong info button when loading it on and that generated the text.

She sent me the GP report and said I would maybe need an assessment when my application was on the system or they might just go off what GP said and from what my own form said.

A few days later I received the report my GP had sent them and after reading it I felt it was really a good support to my pip claim.
Then I got a new text to say.......

Thanks for sending us your 'How your disability affects you' form. We may need you to attend a consultation with a health professional before we make our decision. We'll contact you again if we do. Please call us if any of the details you gave us have changed.

I really do thank you if your still reading this essay.haha
My question is has this happened to anyone else and if so can you tell me what happened and also does a GPS factual report help with a good out come.
Any help, advice and views I would really appreciate....positive or negative. I would just love a bit of input from your own experiences.
Many thanks for reading and for your support. I wish you all better health and happiness xx

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Comments

calcotti

Whether or not the GP report helps entirely depends on what is in it. The few I have seen have, in my opinion, been useless. A GP doesn’t see you trying to cook a meal, get in and out of a bath etc and these days when you don’t always see the same GP the person who fills it in may only your medical records to refer to. None of which is to say that a GP report is never helpful.

schoolmum

Thank you @calcotti

poppy123456

It sounds like the health assessment providers are one step ahead and requested the report. I agree with calcotti and the information they give isn't always helpful.

Mose people have assessments, which would be either face to face or telephone, so you should expect one of those. Backlogs are huge so you could be waiting quite some time before you receive an appointment.

You've done all you can for now and all you need to do is wait.

schoolmum

@poppy123456 thanks poppy your advice is much appreciated and knowledge is always much appreciated. I have messaged you also. Thanks

Adrian_Scope

Hello @schoolmum, great to hear from you again. I'm sorry to read you and your husband have been so poorly but I'm glad it sounds as though you're feeling a bit better now.

When you spoke to the telephony agent did they mention whether there was a written report at all?

I'm wondering if perhaps they've done a paper-based assessment purely on the GP report. I've known it to happen before when a claimant hasn't returned their PIP2 form.

Please let us know how you get on either way.

chiarieds

Hi @schoolmum - lovely to hear from you again. I claim PIP, but my f2f assessment was before the pandemic. Do keep in touch & let us all know how you get on.

schoolmum

Aww I certainly will do its just as you know from your own application its the waiting and not knowing that takes its toll on you. Many thanks @chiarieds

schoolmum

@Adrian_Scope
Many thanks Adrian

PumpkinFlower

Hi Schoolmum. I help people in my community with their benefits - predominantly PiP Assessments, as honestly - its a horrible process to go through. What I say next, may upset you or alarm you... but try not to get that way. This is about preparing you for what lies ahead, because a lot of Claims for PiP, cause people to get upset along the way. But no matter what happens - no matter the result - I urge you to keep going through the process, so you get your correct entitlement in the end. ......This may be a long response - as I have a complete inability to summerise, and I want to give you all the advice I can to help set you up for a successful claim. .... So grab a drink and snacks, and settle down and read on... if you want to, that is! Lol.

First off - PiP claiming is a lenghty, and often upsetting process. It is fundamentally flawed, and yet no-one can figure out how to fix it. My top tip to anyone asking me for help is to expect to fail. I know that sounds ludicris, but genuinely - get it into your mind, that you will get a letter back with the sentiment of "Yeah - thanks - but no!" - even if you are basically just a brain in a jar in the back of the cupboard - the fact you can think, they are likely to say you could get a job, and you don't need the help. Honestly - it is like that sometimes! ... But fear not - and fight on!!!!

[Removed by moderator – inaccurate advice and information]

The Claims I've seen fail, are the ones, who might not have been dishonest, but who only went in with emotions, rather than facts and evidence. I.e, they claim they wet themselves all the time, and use incontinence pants costing them money each week...but hadn't gone to the Dr as they were too embarrassed, and it's so stressful. There is no proof in that... whereas, what they could have done, is taken the medicine info leaflet, with the side effect listed as possible incontinence, and presented a couple of month's worth of till receipts, showing regular Incontinence Pants/Pads purchases, as probable proof, that this is happening to you, and put it forward like that, regardless of it being recorded at the Doctor or not.

So I implore you. Do NOT give up. Appeal their Decision if you need to. Expect to fail, and end up going on to Appeal. If you do end up in a Tribunal Court, appealing the DWP Decision, firstly - its not a Court. Its an official building, labelled Court, usually a 1970's office they've rented. Lol. The Judge might be in Robes, but mostly not, just in a suit. No wigs. No witness box, like you see on a TV Courtroom Drama...it's all a bit disappointing really. Lol. In the Room, will be, The Judge, possibly a court appointed Dr, and maybe an expert, and if they can actually be bothered, a representative of the DWP... But they don't usually bother showing up! That's how little they care! .... When it's your time, it is important that you listen carefully to every word that Judge says. They are not there to be your friend! They are there to find out the facts of your conditions, and how they affect you... I do not take their manner, or spoken tone, to heart! ... The funny thing is, that while they may not sound friendly, they nearly always throw people the Lifeline, in the way they ask questions. For example: "And would you say that your condition makes it really hard for you to talk to people for long?"... Or " Well that sounds difficult, and I'm guessing that may prevent you from handling cutlery, yourself?" ... both allowing you the opportunity to score points you may have missed out on. If you get upset, they will wait a moment for you to compose yourself. And like I said, it is important to remember that they are not there to sympathise with you, or be your friend... merely to establish the facts, in order to give you your rightful Legal Entitlement, as the Law see's it, based on evidence (verbal, written, etc) you've given them. .... And if you don't agree with their Decision - Appeal again - you can have 2 go's. You might as well use them.... then if that fails... give it a week, and start again! ...

So Appeal, Appeal, Appeal! It's a long, soul-destroying task, but you have everything to gain, with not much to lose.

Hope that all makes sense, and helps in some way.

Good luck, and know, that the refusal of PiP Benefits at this stage, and at Mandatory Reconsideration, is sadly, all part of the process, BUT that it should all be alright in the end.

Hope all that makes sense for you. Best of luck with it all.

Adrian_Scope

Good morning @pumpkinflower and a warm welcome to the community. Thank you for taking the time to share your experience with us. It’s nice of you to support people in your local community too – how long have you been doing that?

I just wanted to take some time to address a few of the points you’ve raised.

PumpkinFlower said:

My top tip to anyone asking me for help is to expect to fail. I know that sounds ludicris, but genuinely - get it into your mind, that you will get a letter back with the sentiment of "Yeah - thanks - but no!" - even if you are basically just a brain in a jar in the back of the cupboard - the fact you can think, they are likely to say you could get a job, and you don't need the help. Honestly - it is like that sometimes! ... But fear not - and fight on!!!!

It might interest you to know that the majority of PIP claims are actually successful. I'm sure you're aware but it’s important to note for those who may not be, but PIP isn’t about ability to work, you can work fulltime and still claim PIP – although I understood the point you were trying to make.

PumpkinFlower said:

And if you don't agree with their Decision - Appeal again - you can have 2 go's.

Just for further clarity for anyone reading; unfortunately it’s not as simple as getting “2 go’s” at appeal. The second is a further appeal to the Upper Tribunal and is based on finding an error in law. Some examples of this can be found on our website.

I’ve had to remove a few parts of your comment due to it containing misadvice and misinformation, primarily around the assessors and their role.
While it’s commonly believed that they earn commission for finding against a claimant, it’s my understanding that this isn’t the case. If you’ve evidence to the contrary I’d be really interested to read it.
It’s also not advisable to base answers on just your worst days and to do so could be considered fraud and it can actually hurt a claim as well.

I do agree with the sentiment of your message though. It's important for claimants to know they have options and that even if they don't receive an award at the initial stage, it's not always the end of the road.

schoolmum

@Adrian_Scope
@PumpkinFlower
Many thanks for all this information. Hopefully I will receive the correct award and won't need to go as far as a tribunal stage but I certainly would if refused.

mumofmonkeys

Hello. I’m gonna answer as a parent to children who get DLA and PIP. I’ve never had any outside help doing dla forms and was awarded for 2 of my children but knowing how notorious PIP was to be awarded i was nervous for my daughter when she turned 16 last year.
I’m her appointee so did all the forms and her telephone appointment for her (she wasn’t present during the call as she was at school and they said it was fine).

I filled in the paperwork, giving examples of things she struggles with and what would happen if in that situation where I could. Then her phone interview appointment I was nervous for because I’d heard all the stories of the assessors not being truthful etc..,,
The lady who did ours was LOVELY, listened to what I said- asked questions and sounded like she really understood her problems.

We still nervously awaited a decision and expected to get standard awards yet ended up she was awarded enhanced for both (took about 4 weeks from call to decision for us last month)

schoolmum

@Adrian_Scope
Hi Adrian. Can I pm you please. Iv done a message but won't let me add you name
Many thanks

schoolmum

Hi @mumofmonkeys
What a fab name you have haha. I love it.
Aww I am delighted you got the correct award for your precious daughter.
I applied a few years ago for esa and was awarded it and put in support group so know form completing assessments waiting for decisions are awful and stressful.
I can also say in all honesty I have only ever been treated with great kindness care and respect by all i have dealt with. My esa assessor was a nurse and she was lovely. Her report was thorough and truthful.
I also feel it helps if we realise people are only doing their job and we should also be polite and respectful to them.
Thank you for your post . Take care and stay safe and well.

janer1967

Myself and lots of other members are examples of 0eople who were awarded pip first time with no help from advice centre

Don't take all you read as being representative of the outcome . Yes people get refused and you will read more about that on the Internet than those who have been successful. As successful claimant has no reason to seek advice on a forum

mumofmonkeys

janer1967 said:

Myself and lots of other members are examples of 0eople who were awarded pip first time with no help from advice centre

Don't take all you read as being representative of the outcome . Yes people get refused and you will read more about that on the Internet than those who have been successful. As successful claimant has no reason to seek advice on a forum

I just wanted to second this bit of advice about only really reading the negatives.

Good luck OP and hope you hear soon

PumpkinFlower

Adrian_Scope said:

Good morning @pumpkinflower and a warm welcome to the community. Thank you for taking the time to share your experience with us. It’s nice of you to support people in your local community too – how long have you been doing that?

I just wanted to take some time to address a few of the points you’ve raised.

PumpkinFlower said:

My top tip to anyone asking me for help is to expect to fail. I know that sounds ludicris, but genuinely - get it into your mind, that you will get a letter back with the sentiment of "Yeah - thanks - but no!" - even if you are basically just a brain in a jar in the back of the cupboard - the fact you can think, they are likely to say you could get a job, and you don't need the help. Honestly - it is like that sometimes! ... But fear not - and fight on!!!!

It might interest you to know that the majority of PIP claims are actually successful. I'm sure you're aware but it’s important to note for those who may not be, but PIP isn’t about ability to work, you can work fulltime and still claim PIP – although I understood the point you were trying to make.

PumpkinFlower said:

And if you don't agree with their Decision - Appeal again - you can have 2 go's.

Just for further clarity for anyone reading; unfortunately it’s not as simple as getting “2 go’s” at appeal. The second is a further appeal to the Upper Tribunal and is based on finding an error in law. Some examples of this can be found on our website.

I’ve had to remove a few parts of your comment due to it containing misadvice and misinformation, primarily around the assessors and their role.
While it’s commonly believed that they earn commission for finding against a claimant, it’s my understanding that this isn’t the case. If you’ve evidence to the contrary I’d be really interested to read it.
It’s also not advisable to base answers on just your worst days and to do so could be considered fraud and it can actually hurt a claim as well.

I do agree with the sentiment of your message though. It's important for claimants to know they have options and that even if they don't receive an award at the initial stage, it's not always the end of the road.

I am sorry you think my post contained mis-information - I assure you none of it did. I worked in the DWP, then moved into working in the Benefit Tribunal Courts. And then moved into dealing with this full time for free for people, after an industrial accident (their fault - I won the Employment Tribunal against them) had them "let me go". I've been doing this every day, now since 2013.*

I only tell people to expect to fail purely because of the distress that initial letter that may or may not be found in favour, can cause. If it's a positive outcome, its a bonus, but if not - then at least you've been warned. I repeatedly warn Clients not to get disheartened and disillusioned by the first findings - and when they get that letter through - I either congratulate or comiserate, and carry on the fight. If you know what may come - you can better prepare for it, and know that you still have options. Far too many people simply give up when they see the first letter stating Zero Points - or not enough points have been awarded., because they didn't expect it, as Assessors mostly come across as really kind and lovely people.*

*[Moderator note: This post has been heavily edited to remove inaccurate advice]

poppy123456

@PumpkinFlower, I seen your previous comment before it was edited and yes some of it was mis-information.

Assessors do not get paid for "failing people" Please do post a link for this, as requested by Adrian. It's against the rules of the community to present opinions as facts.

Sorry but basing your claim on your worst days is the absolute worst advice i've heard. This is not what someone should do and can be seen as benefit fraud. I do not believe at all that a Tribunal judge advised anyone to do this.

The majority of people do claim successfully first time, without going to Tribunal. Tribunal success rate is not 90%, infact it's more like 76% if represented, slightly less if you're not represented.

You can find the stats for PIP claims here. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/personal-independence-payment-statistics-to-october-2021/personal-independence-payment-official-statistics-to-october-2021

chiarieds

Hi @PumpkinFlower - I'm sure that you hope to be helpful, but your post did indeed contain misinformation. Just to say a few things as far as PIP goes; it is the worst scenario to advise someone to describe their worst day, PIP is about how you are on the majority of days.

There is no 'game'.' Unfortunately some don't complete their PIP2 form as well as they could, which is where some of our knowledgeable members here advise.

Somewhat surprised your initial comments were not edited more.

calcotti

PumpkinFlower said:..but this is overturned at Tribunal stage - to be over 90% of Appealants being successful in Tribunal. This is a figure easily obtained via Freedom Of Information Act, requests.

There is no need for an FOI. The statistic says are published quarterl. Latest statistics published in December 2021.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/tribunal-statistics-quarterly-october-to-december-2021/tribunal-statistics-quarterly-october-to-december-2021#social-security-and-child-support

Of the disposals made by the SSCS Tribunal, 12,000 (61%) were cleared at hearing, and of these, 60% were overturned in favour of the customer (down from 63% and down from 66% on the same period in 2020 respectively). This overturn rate varied by benefit type, with PIP at 68%, Disability Living Allowance (DLA) 65%, Employment Support Allowance (ESA) 60%, and UC 46%. The PIP, DLA, ESA and UC overturn rates mostly decreased compared with October to December 2020 (PIP down 6%, DLA down 1%, ESA down 9% and UC down 11%).

68% is still a favourable statistic for appellants but it is not over 90%.

Answering questions based on worst days is absolutely wrong. You correctly state that a decision should be based on the majority of days so that’s what claimants should describe. (I agree that’s many claimants will trip themselves up by talking about good and bad days without explaining what’s the balance is and what happens on the in between days).

I agree with the general thrust of your argument but you undermine it by using false statistics and including assertions that are, in my opinion, at best misleading.