Has anyone used Fightback 4 Justice for PIP tribunal?

Becky88

I’ve got a PIP tribunal coming up and someone suggested Fightback to me but my interaction with them so far hasn’t been inspiring and I don’t want to pay the £74 if they’re not going to help me the way I need it. 

So I wondered if anyone’s used them and what they felt their service was like? Do they only take cases they think they’ll win (I suspect this due to their huge success rates)? If so, what happens to your money if they decide not to take your case? They mention that you’ll get support from a qualified solicitor - is this correct? How does the overall process work? 

I did call them to ask questions but unfortunately the person I spoke to wasn’t very helpful. 

Any advice appreciated. 

MarkM88

There is no need to. You should not have to pay for advice. I advise not to pay for this. 

Becky88

Thanks for your comment Mark. 

The reason I’m looking at them is because unfortunately in my area the support is practically non-existent, at least for my needs (I’m autistic). I’ve been in touch with CAB and they put me in touch with an organisation. However, said organisation would only offer arms-length support via email and telephone and I find it very hard to communicate in this way. I’ve been fighting for my PIP since 2019 and in that time I’ve had one telephone conversation and 4 emails with the person helping me. I got no practical support which I needed so I received 0 points from my form because I couldn’t express my needs in the way PIP wants. 

I’ve had no help to do the MR and no help to do the tribunal. 

I actually had my tribunal last week and they adjourned it because I didn’t bring the right appeal papers with me. 

Literally no one’s helping me and no organisations seem to exist in my area that offer practical, hands on support hence why I’m looking at FB4J  

Alex_Alumni

Hello @Becky88 thanks for explaining your situation, I'm sorry you've not got the level of support you're after during this process. 

I wonder whether a search on Advice Local would be useful? You can see if there might be a professional adviser local to you. 

Turn2Us also has a 'Find An Adviser' tool, which I hope can help as well. 

I can appreciate your need for practical, hands on support, which ideally, you should be able to access for free.

Scope Helpline might also be able to advise about support that's right for you, so please do get in touch.

Let us know if we can help with anything further, and keep us updated with how you get on.

Alex

poppy123456

I have to agree with @MarkM88 here and say that i also wouldn't pay anyone to help me. That's entirely your decision though.

One thing to remember is that they will represent you but they can't answer any of the questions during the hearing, the only person that can do that is yourself.

When attending the hearing you must take the "bundle" with you so you can refer to it, if needed.

For the hearing did you prepare your submission? This should have included a couple of real world incidents of exactly what happened the last time you attempted the activity for each descriptor that applies to you. Giving detailed information such as where you were, what exactly happened, did anyone see it and what the consequences were.

racyguy

No idea where Becky88 lives but if she is not within a reasonable distance from Bury in Lancashire it is almost unlikely that she will get face to face help and/or representation.
And I do have to agree that there are many areas in the UK that are devoid of quality one to one help and advice. In my area I am lucky in that there is a CAB office and AgeUK. But they no longer offer home visits and at best you would get a see someone if you were prepared to wait many weeks/months for an appointment.
Unfortunately the DWP and the Tribunal Service are unlikely to wait that length of time. In fact the DWP insist that you must co-operate with them and complete the information within a 30 day time period. Fail to adhere to that limit it is likely that they will suspend and terminate the entire claim.

Becky88

racyguy said:

No idea where Becky88 lives but if she is not within a reasonable distance from Bury in Lancashire it is almost unlikely that she will get face to face help and/or representation.
And I do have to agree that there are many areas in the UK that are devoid of quality one to one help and advice. In my area I am lucky in that there is a CAB office and AgeUK. But they no longer offer home visits and at best you would get a see someone if you were prepared to wait many weeks/months for an appointment.
Unfortunately the DWP and the Tribunal Service are unlikely to wait that length of time. In fact the DWP insist that you must co-operate with them and complete the information within a 30 day time period. Fail to adhere to that limit it is likely that they will suspend and terminate the entire claim.

I live in Skelmersdale and the hearing will be in Wigan. I specifically asked if I could have someone to physically be present with me and even though they’re only in bury which isn’t an exceptional distance the lady couldn’t confirm if anyone would be available. On the one hand I do understand that they can’t make guarantees but at the same time if I’m paying for the service I think I’m entitled to a clear idea of what exactly I’m paying for. This was just one of several reasons that put me off using them. 

Sadly as you said there’s a shocking lack of practical support in my area. When I first applied for DLA back in around 2007, I lived in Liverpool and was able to go to the CAB in person where an advisor wrote my entire application for me. From that I was awarded indefinite lower rate care and lower rate mobility on my first try with minimal evidence supplied all because he knew how to word my struggles in a way the DLA wanted. 

This time round I’ve been awarded 0 despite sending copious amount of evidence because I’ve had no support and I fully know that some of the things I’ve written they will find contradictory purely because I don’t know how to express my difficulties clearly and get words/meanings mixed up and use them incorrectly sometimes. There’s also the fact that autism is characterised by uneven skill sets so for example I have dyscalculia and struggle with basic arithmetic (I can’t add two single digits without using my fingers, for example) but I worked in a bank where I’d transfer money for people. I know they’ll find that contradictory but being able to type “523.74” isn’t the same as doing 9+7. One is a skull of typing and recognising figures. The other is a skill of addition. They’re separate skills entirely but they will find that contradictory. Likewise I worked in a call centre but I can’t form meaningful relationships. They’ll find that contradictory too but the fact is I learnt a script by rote and whenever a customer tried to make small talk I’d not know what to say and would just direct it back to the task much to my managers annoyance because part of the role was “building rapport” which I couldn’t do. I always underachieved in that role because a large part was based on customer rapport which I couldn’t do but they couldn’t sack me for it because of disability protection so they just penalised me by saying I was under performing meaning I got less bonus than others for something I couldn’t help. 

I didn’t know they could suspend/dismiss a case if you didn’t comply with the 30 day timescale. I’m concerned now because the tribunal have requested additional medical history that I don’t have (I was explicitly advised by the one person whose supposed to be helping me that they won’t consider any evidence past my MR decision) and now I’ve had to put in a SAR request to my GP to get it and I’m concerned they won’t produce it in time. I’ve also requested additional evidence from my previous work place where I was working during my first PIP claim because I had a lot of adaption put in place to support me and they’ve just emailed me saying they won’t be able to get it to me until at least 22/6 due to the amount of info requested. 

I hate this country. No sick or disabled person would be put through this he’ll just to prove they’re sick and have to face a judge who’s future is literally in his hands. 

I’m in mega debt because I’ve been living on credit cards because when I lost my DLA I lost £300 monthly income in one go. I’m about to be sacked at work for being off due to illness too long and my sick pay has ran out. If I don’t get my PIP I’m going to end up homeless or worse. I’m under so much stress that I’ve now developed a heart condition which is still under investigation but the leading suspected cause is cardiomyopathy. I honestly believe the 3 years of stress I’ve been dealing with is the cause of it.

edit: I’m sorry for the massive reply. I’m just stressed and struggling to explain myself.  

poppy123456

Becky88 said:

racyguy said:

No idea where Becky88 lives but if she is not within a reasonable distance from Bury in Lancashire it is almost unlikely that she will get face to face help and/or representation.
And I do have to agree that there are many areas in the UK that are devoid of quality one to one help and advice. In my area I am lucky in that there is a CAB office and AgeUK. But they no longer offer home visits and at best you would get a see someone if you were prepared to wait many weeks/months for an appointment.
Unfortunately the DWP and the Tribunal Service are unlikely to wait that length of time. In fact the DWP insist that you must co-operate with them and complete the information within a 30 day time period. Fail to adhere to that limit it is likely that they will suspend and terminate the entire claim.

(I was explicitly advised by the one person whose supposed to be helping me that they won’t consider any evidence past my MR decision)

That's not correct. Providing the evidence you send relates to how your conditions affected you at the time the assessment took place then they will accept it. What they won't consider is a worsening of condition since the assessment.

Becky88

poppy123456 said:

I have to agree with @MarkM88 here and say that i also wouldn't pay anyone to help me. That's entirely your decision though.

One thing to remember is that they will represent you but they can't answer any of the questions during the hearing, the only person that can do that is yourself.

When attending the hearing you must take the "bundle" with you so you can refer to it, if needed.

For the hearing did you prepare your submission? This should have included a couple of real world incidents of exactly what happened the last time you attempted the activity for each descriptor that applies to you. Giving detailed information such as where you were, what exactly happened, did anyone see it and what the consequences were.

When you say submission, what do you mean exactly? Sorry for the stupid question. 

I didn’t give any real world examples when I did my MR because I wasn’t told to. It’s been so long since I started this whole process that I can’t remember what I did or what I said, which is why the tribunal adjourned my hearing, along with my lack of appeal papers because what I brought with me wasn’t the right papers but I didn’t know that. 

This is what I mean by lack of support when there’s no one to explain what you need to do and how, you can miss out purely because you don’t know the system. The system effectively has built-in discrimination by the very nature that in order to use it successfully you have to be capable enough to know how. If you have learning disabilities that make you struggle with forms and have no support, you’re almost destined to fail because the system is fundamentally working against you. It’s so wrong. 

Becky88

poppy123456 said:

Becky88 said:

racyguy said:

No idea where Becky88 lives but if she is not within a reasonable distance from Bury in Lancashire it is almost unlikely that she will get face to face help and/or representation.
And I do have to agree that there are many areas in the UK that are devoid of quality one to one help and advice. In my area I am lucky in that there is a CAB office and AgeUK. But they no longer offer home visits and at best you would get a see someone if you were prepared to wait many weeks/months for an appointment.
Unfortunately the DWP and the Tribunal Service are unlikely to wait that length of time. In fact the DWP insist that you must co-operate with them and complete the information within a 30 day time period. Fail to adhere to that limit it is likely that they will suspend and terminate the entire claim.

(I was explicitly advised by the one person whose supposed to be helping me that they won’t consider any evidence past my MR decision)

That's not correct. Providing the evidence you send relates to how your conditions affected you at the time the assessment took place then they will accept it. What they won't consider is a worsening of condition since the assessment.

Thank you for the info. The person who was helping me misadvised me which is frustrating. 

I really feel like I’m going to lose this entire thing because I’m just not being given any help and now I find that the one place I thought might be the help I’m looking for probably can’t help me like I need. 

I read a review about them that said they are horrendous when it comes to mental health and learning disabilities and some of their responses to negative views have been exceptionally unprofessional. 

I really don’t know what I’m supposed to do. 

Becky88

Teddybear12 said:

Hi @Becky88 I am so sorry you are having such a difficult time. If you need someone to talk to you can talk to the Samaritans. They will listen, they do not judge or tell you what to do. You can phone them free of charge any time day or night from any phone. You do not have to be suicidal to get in touch with them.  116 123  or email jo@samaritans.org   https://www.samaritans.org   Take care.

Thank you. I’ve spoken to Samaritans several times. They’re wonderful. 

poppy123456

Submission is something like a statement. Have a read of this thread here. https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/87932/pip-tribunal-representation/p1

Medical evidence is only useful if it states exactly how your conditions affect you and most doesn't. A couple of real world incidents with details as i mentioned above will help a lot. You should aim for at least half an A4 side of paper per descriptor that applies to you.

This link may also help. https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal

Becky88

I’m sorry I’m leaving really long and whinging replies to everyone, I really appreciate all your help and support. 

Becky88

Alex_Scope said:

Hello @Becky88 thanks for explaining your situation, I'm sorry you've not got the level of support you're after during this process. 

I wonder whether a search on Advice Local would be useful? You can see if there might be a professional adviser local to you. 

Turn2Us also has a 'Find An Adviser' tool, which I hope can help as well. 

I can appreciate your need for practical, hands on support, which ideally, you should be able to access for free.

Scope Helpline might also be able to advise about support that's right for you, so please do get in touch.

Let us know if we can help with anything further, and keep us updated with how you get on.

Alex

Hi, 

thank you. I have looked at both of the links you provided and sadly the only relevant organisations are ones I’ve already tried. Welfare Rights is the one who only offer minimal, distance support and I contacted ICAN on three separate occasions (now 4 as I contacted them again today) and each time I didn’t hear back. I suspect I won’t hear back this time either. 

It just feels impossible. 

Becky88

poppy123456 said:

Submission is something like a statement. Have a read of this thread here. https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/87932/pip-tribunal-representation/p1

Medical evidence is only useful if it states exactly how your conditions affect you and most doesn't. A couple of real world incidents with details as i mentioned above will help a lot. You should aim for at least half an A4 side of paper per descriptor that applies to you.

This link may also help. https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal

Thank you. I do remember doing a submission now but I can’t remember if it was for the tribunal or MR. I do know that I did a very very poor job of it and it was basically me panicking with no substance. 

That info is really helpful and once I get my appeal papers (the tribunal are sending them to me) I will reread my papers and write examples of when I’ve struggled. 

The whole prospect of having to read such a massive amount of paper work and understand it all, then write my arguments against it is overwhelming. How can I possibly have a fair tribunal when I fundamentally lack the abilities to argue my case. I dread to think how people more autistic than I am cope. 

poppy123456

You don’t need to argue against anything. All you need to do is state where and why you think you should have scored those points. 

Remember, you’re not on trial. 

Becky88

poppy123456 said:

You don’t need to argue against anything. All you need to do is state where and why you think you should have scored those points. 

Remember, you’re not on trial. 

Thank you. No one’s really explained it to me so I’m not sure what I need to be doing or how best to do it so I really appreciate your advise. 

Can I ask a question? In the thread you linked it said that saying how you are on your worst day is the wrong approach. Again, I was told by the welfare rights advisor to use my worst days as evidence. Is it therefore okay to explain that my mental health symptoms and autism limitations aren’t always the same day to day and that whether or not I can do something greatly varies? One day I may be able to do x thing but the next day I can’t and it’s this variation and unpredictability in my conditions that cause me most difficulty because I never know how I’m going to be on day go the next. It’s difficult to hold a full time job when on day you can do you role without much issue and the next day you’re hiding in the toilet having a major panic attack leaving your colleagues to pick up the slack. 

I don’t mean to bombard you with questions so please let me know if I’m crossing a line. 

Alex_Alumni

Hi @Becky88 I'm so sorry the links I provided weren't so helpful for you, it's frustrating to hear about the lack of support you've been offered by them. I can see our members have been able to help reassure and support you, which is really positive to see. 

You don't need to feel bad about any long posts, asking questions, or for explaining how you feel. No one will judge you, and we are all here to help support you The longer posts are really helpful, so we understand what's been happening. 

I'm also glad to read that you've found Samaritans helpful in the past, they really are a lovely organisation.

I think it does makes sense to explain how much the variation and unpredictability in your conditions cause you difficulty, this is true of so many disabilities and health conditions. It's not something that's fixed in place, so allowance should be made for that. 

Becky88

Alex_Scope said:

Hi @Becky88 I'm so sorry the links I provided weren't so helpful for you, it's frustrating to hear about the lack of support you've been offered by them. I can see our members have been able to help reassure and support you, which is really positive to see. 

You don't need to feel bad about any long posts, asking questions, or for explaining how you feel. No one will judge you, and we are all here to help support you The longer posts are really helpful, so we understand what's been happening. 

I'm also glad to read that you've found Samaritans helpful in the past, they really are a lovely organisation.

I think it does makes sense to explain how much the variation and unpredictability in your conditions cause you difficulty, this is true of so many disabilities and health conditions. It's not something that's fixed in place, so allowance should be made for that. 

That’s okay, it’s not your fault. Unfortuntely the area I live in is just not very well served - not just in terms of welfare support services but infrastructure general sadly. 

Thank you for your reassurances and advice. I’ve learnt more from this thread and the members here than I have in 3 years of fighting for PIP.   

poppy123456

You should never base it on your worst days becuase it could be benefit fraud by doing this. PIP is about how you are at least 50% of the time over a 12 month period, therefore yes it's perfectly ok to explain how you are all the time.

Did you previously have a PIP award? Or did you transfer from DLA and were refused PIP?

poppy123456

Please also be aware that PIP isn't about your ability to work, people claim PIP and work.