LCWRA FIT NOTE — Scope | Disability forum
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LCWRA FIT NOTE

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elly221
elly221 Community member Posts: 16 Connected
edited June 2022 in Universal Credit (UC)
Hello I moved from ESA support Group over to LCWRA UC in December 21 because I changed my home address. I have 2 long term illnesses spanning over 30 years. After 5 months of being on LCWRA with UC they put a note in my online journal asking me to get a fit note from my doctor. They said I was awarded 4 months LCWRA and that has come to an end and they now want a fit note from my Dr. Isn't a fit note asked for at the beginning stages of a person's short or longer term illness in which case a claim is made for  UC or ESA and if put in the support group on ESA or the LCWRA group in UC isn't it the case that fit notes are no longer required and the correct procedure should be a periodic UC review instead. It seems to me they are trying to treat my long term illnesses as short term such as happened within the last few months illnesses. I have suffered for over 30 years though with both illnesses and whilst in the ESA support group before moving onto UC I was never asked for a Drs fit note.  I have long term asthma and a long term mental illness. I understand they may require medical evidence along with a periodic review but isn't the fit note procedure for people with short term illnesses, or longer term illnesses who then need to make a claim for UC or ESA and if put in the support group on ESA or the LCWRA group on UC no more fit notes required as long as they are in one of these groups 
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Comments

  • calcotti
    calcotti Community member Posts: 10,010 Disability Gamechanger
    edited May 2022
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    That is completely wrong. You are correct.

    An LCWRA decision is not time limited. They can reassess you if they wish to but this does not require you to provide a new Fit Note. The reassessment would start with them sending you a new WCA.

    The appropriate response is something along the lines that
    There is no such thing as a time limited LCWRA award. I understand that my status can be reassessed by you at any time. If this is what you intend i would expend the process to start with you issuing a new WCA. The existing LCWRA determination will continue until such time as the new WCA has been completed and a new decision made.

    Even if your health condition were/is short time that simply determines when it is appropriate to reassess.

    So depressing that so may staff appear so badly informed about the system they administer.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • Biblioklept
    Biblioklept Community member Posts: 4,682 Disability Gamechanger
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    calcotti said:

    So depressing that so may staff appear so badly informed about the system they administer.
    So true. I wonder how often they have trainings or if they just rely on staff reading the guidance
  • elly221
    elly221 Community member Posts: 16 Connected
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    Yes, thanks very much for your reply I will contact them with this information  
  • calcotti
    calcotti Community member Posts: 10,010 Disability Gamechanger
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    Biblioklept said:..or if they just rely on staff reading the guidance
    If they actually read the guidance they would make fewer mistakes. The problem is that lots of people appear not to be familiar with the guidance but assume they know the answer anyway.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 54,189 Disability Gamechanger
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    It won't be the first time they've asked for a fit note when someone has already been found to have LCWRA.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Biblioklept
    Biblioklept Community member Posts: 4,682 Disability Gamechanger
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    That's what I meant lol
    Like they don't bother with training and expect staff to read guidance and they don't and just assume they know it.
    It's scary though and so irresponsible as they literally control people's livelihoods and these mistakes can cost lives
  • calcotti
    calcotti Community member Posts: 10,010 Disability Gamechanger
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    OP, relevant guidance

    ADM Chapter G1: Work capability assessment (publishing.service.gov.uk)

    G1020 A WCA may be carried out when
    1. the DM has to determine whether the claimant has LCW or LCWRA for the first time.. or
    2. there has been a previous determination that the claimant has or is treated as having LCW or LCWRA, and the DM wishes to determine whether
    2.1 there has been a relevant change of circumstances in the claimant’s physical or mental condition or 2.2 the previous determination was made in ignorance of, or based on a mistake as to, some material fact.

    https://data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2022-0452/092-Medical_Evidence_including_fit_notes_V7.0.pdf
    When the claimant’s Work Capability Assessment decision is due for review, there is no need to ask them to provide any more fit notes. 


    If you have a new and different medical condition which you wanted to report as a change then you would need to provide a Fit Note.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • elly221
    elly221 Community member Posts: 16 Connected
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    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-credit-if-you-have-a-disability-or-health-condition-quick-guide/universal-credit-if-you-have-a-disability-or-health-condition#limited-capability-for-work-and-work-related-activity

    13. Moving from Employment and Support Allowance to Universal Credit

    If you have been receiving Employment and Support Allowance (ESA), have already completed a WCA and been assessed whilst claiming ESA, you may not have to undertake the assessment again when you move to Universal Credit.

    If your Work Capability Assessment is due for a review, you will need to have another assessment.

    13.1 Work Related Activity Component

    If you have already been assessed as having limited capability for work, you may not have to undertake the assessment again.

    You will get paid an extra amount of Universal Credit called the LCW component if you:

    • were in receipt of the Work Related Activity Component in ESA prior to 3 April 2017
    • are still receiving this immediately before your claim to Universal Credit
    • have no changes to your health condition.              (This information I copied from the government link above also makes no mention of asking for a fit note.
  • calcotti
    calcotti Community member Posts: 10,010 Disability Gamechanger
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    elly221 said: This information I copied from the government link above also makes no mention of asking for a fit note.
    The stuff about the WRAG in para 13.1 is not relevant as OP was in Support Group (para 13.2 would be relevant).

    Nonetheless the same principle applies. The ESA status is carried across. UC can choose to to reassess.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • elly221
    elly221 Community member Posts: 16 Connected
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    Yes of course I should of copied paragraph 13.2 instead. Just saying they make no mention of providing a fit note here too. They can choose to reassess as you say
  • elly221
    elly221 Community member Posts: 16 Connected
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    13.2 Support Component

    If you have already been assessed as having limited capability for work and work related activity you may not have to undertake the assessment again.

    You will get paid an extra amount of Universal Credit called the LCWRA component, if you were in receipt of the Support Component in ESA immediately before your claim to Universal Credit and have no changes to your health condition.                   ( I have copied above the information relevent to people receiving LCWRA) 

  • elly221
    elly221 Community member Posts: 16 Connected
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    Hello, Will I be sent a UC50 form before a reassessment They are saying they will be sending me a questionnaire is this the UC50 form. I have asked them but waiting for a reply from them so thought I would ask here too thanks. As there is still a backlog of claims are they likely to send this form soon.
  • janer1967
    janer1967 Community member Posts: 21,964 Disability Gamechanger
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    @elly221 yes you should get uc50 form 

    You will get note in your journal telling you that you have been referred for a reassessment 

    As far as I am aware there ars still backlogs and reassessment have been suspended until they are cleared bit of course this can change 
  • elly221
    elly221 Community member Posts: 16 Connected
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  • elly221
    elly221 Community member Posts: 16 Connected
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    I explained I asked for advice and that advice was that the fit note procedure is for people not placed into the ESA support group or transitioning from that into the LCWRA group under UC. I then asked when was I likely to receive the UC50 form, as I am aware there is a backlog presently as explained by someone else in my journel, I needed to know as I don't feel well with severe breathing and depression and was hoping I could have at least a couple of months leavage before this starts because of the present backlog but The same womon who asked for a fit note before in my journel gave this reply . We cannot refer you for a WCA without a fit note from your doctor's. This is stressful my asthma is very bad and I am very depressed. I understand they can ask for medical evidence but she is classifying it as an actual fit note yet again   
  • elly221
    elly221 Community member Posts: 16 Connected
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    I replied to her again with the same information as before about the fit note 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 54,189 Disability Gamechanger
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    elly221 said:
    We cannot refer you for a WCA without a fit note from your doctor's.
    That's not correct and it's shameful that they don't even know their own rules.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Biblioklept
    Biblioklept Community member Posts: 4,682 Disability Gamechanger
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    are you still getting lcwra? I don't know about anyone else but  I'd just ignore it all, you don't need a fit note and when they decide to reassess you they will send you a UC50 so no point arguing with this person that clearly doesn't know the rules. She can't change you off of lcwra so her asking for a fit note is irrelevant and if she keeps asking, ask for it to be reviewed by decision maker as you have lcwra you don't need a fit note
  • elly221
    elly221 Community member Posts: 16 Connected
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    Thankyou for your replys, this is Appreciated, I was on ESA in the support group then had to claim UC because I changed address out of that local area. I was told by ESA when leaving I was shortly up for review. I was put into the LCWRA group with UC then about 5 months later they said I was awarded LCWRA for 4 months and she asked my to get a fit note from the Drs as I was up for review, which of course was wrong. I read somewhere they have to ask for for a fit note 3 times she has asked 2 times now but this applies to people who have not already been placed into the ESA support or UC LCWRA category already, not to people already in these catorgorys people already in these catorgorys are given a UC50 form  review and asked for medical evidence possibly if nessesary but not in the form of a fit note seems to me she wants to apply the 3 strikes your out procedure instead asking for a fit note that is the wrong procedure for my circumstances. I am suppose to have a review and should only be asked for medical evidence instead.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 54,189 Disability Gamechanger
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    You wouldn’t be asked to send medical evidence on your journal anyway. You would send evidence when returning the UC50 form. 

    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.

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