PIP Assessment report incorrect and full of things we didn't say or do

jprice

I'm the appointee for my 16 year old son who has crohns disease and other health problems. We had a video assessment for PIP on 19/07/2022. I didn't receive notification that the report was received so called the dwp who confirmed they had it and sent me a copy. On reading the assessors report there are great errors, things myself and son never said ,and the assessor has spoke of my son refusing to do activities for an assessment. We was never asked to do any of this. 

Prior to the assessment I requested that the call was audio record and the letter said they will do it and provide me with a cd. When I requested this I was told its not on my letter, but I can record it myself. To this I did and at the beginning of the recording I stated I had requested that they record it and was told they don't do.

I've written all the incorrect points of the report. My finds are on each and every page of the report, I'm now not sure what is left to do. If this is not addressed at this stage my sons dla would get stopped until pip is addressed, however with so much errors and a recording that is evidence that we did not say or do said things, as well as, the assessor report not matching what she said, would this be grounds for the process to be stopped before final report completed? There is also areas of discrimination relating to my sons hair and skin that I've highlighted in my complaint

Tori_Scope

Welcome to the community @jprice

Thank you for joining, and for sharing you and your son's recent PIP assessment experience. I'm sorry to hear that it was so negative. I've moved your post into our category for discussions relating to PIP, DLA, and AA. If you take a look through this category, you'll be able to see that you and your son certainly aren't the only ones feeling this way. 

We'd usually encourage people to wait until their decision letter arrives, to see what they've been awarded. If you're not happy with the award, you can then submit a Mandatory Reconsideration (MR). You can read about MRs on the Citizens Advice website.

We hear from many members that they find it most effective to look at ways of strengthening their own evidence, rather than disputing what the assessor may have written, when completing an MR. Does that make sense? 

There is also areas of discrimination relating to my sons hair and skin that I've highlighted in my complaint

I was sorry to read that your son faced this kind of discrimination. Just to clarify: have you submitted a complaint about the assessor? 

poppy123456

This is the problem when requesting a copy of the report, it’s not always the best idea.
The report is their opinion based on everything you sent and what was said during the assessment. The assessment process is not for them to write what you said verbatim, if it was there would be no point in having the assessment.
In the report will be dots/ticks next to Activities/descriptors. Have you checked those against the PIP descriptors to see what points (if any) are recommended?
If you haven’t then you can do that by using the PIP self test here https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/pip-test-form
Copy where the dots are in the report into the self test. At the end it will tell what what’s recommended. 

Once the decision is made if you’re not happy you can request the MR. The DLA will end a few weeks after the PIP decision is made.

jprice

Hi, 
Thanks for your reply. Really helpful.
I fully under re strengthening my case, but there is nothing left to send. I sent everyone of his doctors letters, MRI’s, hosptial admissions, letters from his consultant, letters from his nurse, letters from his dietician and the list goes on. The assessor just didn’t view them then dismissed the findings of the ones she did. 

Yes I’ve made a complaint about the assessor verbally with the accessment centre and will do so with dwp in the morning. Hard copies will be posted also. 

jprice

Hi Poppy, 
Thank you. 

I understand the report is not word for word, but she has stated things that just was not discussed or said. An example is that my son refused to do activity task. He was never asked. 

She said my son is having physiotherapy for arthritis. He is not. 

It’s not her judgments on the assessment I’m complaining about. It’s things that was just made up. I’ve got the recording so it’s not my word against hers.
im glad I got a copy of the report. She has not assessed correctly at all. I can pass this judgment as I’m an assessor and an interval verifier who checks assessors work. Assessing is using the facts and making judgment to see if it matches the evidence, not adding things that just didn’t happen.

jprice

Thanks for sending the link. The assessor has ticked boxes, but her justification doesn’t match. The report really is terrible.

Tori_Scope

People often find it helpful to think of some anecdotal, real world examples to provide as evidence @jprice. These should be relevant to the descriptors. Some people find keeping a diary of what happens each time they try one of the activities. Is that something you or your son have considered? 

poppy123456

jprice said:

Thanks for sending the link. The assessor has ticked boxes, but her justification doesn’t match. The report really is terrible.

Boxes are always ticked even if it's a box A, which would be zero points. You can put in a complaint to the health assessment providers. Details of how to do this will be on their website.

jprice

Thanks Poppy. They was either the very top or one below.
I made a verbal complaint to them ( was on the phone for 2.5 hours detailing it) and following it up in writing tomorrow.

jprice

Thanks Tori.
we have lots of real life examples in the assessment. The assessor took no notice whatsoever. She just kept saying because my son has good memory he can wash him. This was copied and pasted throughout. 

We had statements from others regarding my sons condition. She didn’t look at them. 

poppy123456

jprice said:

Thanks Poppy. They was either the very top or one below.
I made a verbal complaint to them ( was on the phone for 2.5 hours detailing it) and following it up in writing tomorrow.

How many points are recommended? You need at least 8 points for an award in either and/or daily living and mobility.

Cartini

Hi @jprice,

Not about a child, but about me and my experience.  I have spinal issues so applied for PIP; I was awarded enhanced for Daily Living but only 4 points for mobility; this surprised me because I was consistent and explicit throughout my application about how my spine affects me when standing / walking.

I put forward a Mandatory Reconsideration; that was returned with no change.  I expected that, but what I didn`t expect was the reason it didn`t change: quote "because your asthma is well controlled, you can walk 200m".  My asthma was never part of my application other than added to a list of my "challenges".

I`m now waiting for "the pack" from DWP for a tribunal.

I read a lot of comments on "Benefits and Work"; it seems that health care assistants either don`t pay full attention or regularly mix their "copy and paste" reports.

Andy

jprice

poppy123456 said:

jprice said:

Thanks Poppy. They was either the very top or one below.
I made a verbal complaint to them ( was on the phone for 2.5 hours detailing it) and following it up in writing tomorrow.

How many points are recommended? You need at least 8 points for an award in either and/or daily living and mobility.

from what I can tell 6 each.

jprice

Cartini said:

Hi @jprice,

Not about a child, but about me and my experience.  I have spinal issues so applied for PIP; I was awarded enhanced for Daily Living but only 4 points for mobility; this surprised me because I was consistent and explicit throughout my application about how my spine affects me when standing / walking.

I put forward a Mandatory Reconsideration; that was returned with no change.  I expected that, but what I didn`t expect was the reason it didn`t change: quote "because your asthma is well controlled, you can walk 200m".  My asthma was never part of my application other than added to a list of my "challenges".

I`m now waiting for "the pack" from DWP for a tribunal.

I read a lot of comments on "Benefits and Work"; it seems that health care assistants either don`t pay full attention or regularly mix their "copy and paste" reports.

Andy

Hi Andy.
Thanks for sharing. I can see that it’s the case as there was lots of coping and pasting in my one making the whole things not make sense. 

I read on Facebook a lady was turnt down because she had young three children and she could run around after them. She has no children. A gentleman said his report said he enjoyed going out with his girlfriend. He does not go out and is gay. It would appear assessors cut and paste across reports. 

Sue_Alumni

Good morning @jprice

I am sorry that you and your son had such a distressing experience with the health assessment. 

You will need to apply to the assessment provider to complain about the assessment itself.  Details of the assessment provider and how to complain will be in your report.

I hope, despite the poor assessment, the PIP decision, when you receive it,  is what you are hoping for but you are obviously fearful that it won't be. If your son is turned down for PIP you can ask for the decision to be looked again by asking for a mandatory reconsideration. I hope it doesn't come to that.

There are guidelines in place that aim to ensure that the assessments are carried out to a certain quality standard.  It seems in your son's case the guidelines were not observed.  If you need to do a mandatory reconsideration I would suggest you briefly mention only one or two of the major failings - for example that it seemed that the assessor had not familiarized themselves with  your son's case and that many of the findings are not supported by what was said at the assessment.  If the decision maker finds that your son is not entitled to PIP because they have based their  decision on the assessors evidence you can challenge this as erroneous because you can demonstrate that the assessment itself is flawed - but this in itself wont be sufficient. In order to get PIP  and to make a successful challenge you also have to show why your son is entitled to PIP.  You should go through each of the PIP activities and explain why, by giving examples, because of his disabilities he can't a carry out  an activity and why he needs help and support.  

Do keep in touch and let us know how you get on.

jprice

Sue_Scope said:

Good morning @jprice

I am sorry that you and your son had such a distressing experience with the health assessment. 

You will need to apply to the assessment provider to complain about the assessment itself.  Details of the assessment provider and how to complain will be in your report.

I hope, despite the poor assessment, the PIP decision, when you receive it,  is what you are hoping for but you are obviously fearful that it won't be. If your son is turned down for PIP you can ask for the decision to be looked again by asking for a mandatory reconsideration. I hope it doesn't come to that.

There are guidelines in place that aim to ensure that the assessments are carried out to a certain quality standard.  It seems in your son's case the guidelines were not observed.  If you need to do a mandatory reconsideration I would suggest you briefly mention only one or two of the major failings - for example that it seemed that the assessor had not familiarized themselves with  your son's case and that many of the findings are not supported by what was said at the assessment.  If the decision maker finds that your son is not entitled to PIP because they have based their  decision on the assessors evidence you can challenge this as erroneous because you can demonstrate that the assessment itself is flawed - but this in itself wont be sufficient. In order to get PIP  and to make a successful challenge you also have to show why your son is entitled to PIP.  You should go through each of the PIP activities and explain why, by giving examples, because of his disabilities he can't a carry out  an activity and why he needs help and support.  

Do keep in touch and let us know how you get on.

Hi Sue. Thank you. Very insightful and great advise. 

The complaint has been logged with the assessment centre and dwp have been informed that the criteria has not been correctly mapped by the assessor. as well as, incorrect information. I gave pointers to them of supplied observations of the assessor which did not happen and said conversation that did not take place.
Pip have all evidence ( medical) , as well as, each point of the claim form examples given of everyday life impact and there are also witness statements. My sons medical team have also wrote of what they see regarding to how my sons condition impacts him. 

Just now waiting the outcome. 

Thank you for your guidance. 

jprice

Hi Everyone. Does  anyone know who inspects the quality ensurance or is the governing body for Independent assessment services?  There is nothing that I can see on their website. They must be under someone. 

Levi28

H jprice,

I too have a 16yr old daughter, with various needs. Your assessment sounds an awful lot like ours except we had a telephone assessment.

Our assessment came back and it was like it was about a different person!

To cut a long story short, I complained to the assessment services and sent a copy to my MP, who thankfully also spoke to the assessment team.
What ended up happening in our case was that the senior Medical advisor for IAS went through the original assessment and submitted a further report to the DWP and a decision was made.

The complaint I made was upheld, the senior advisor concluded that the original assessor did not take the evidence submitted into consideration and that there were “a lot of unexplainable errors that the original assessor could not explain”

I truly hope you get the outcome you desire. l’m pleased I requested the report because I had the opportunity to point out the errors straightaway.

Good luck xx

jprice

Levi28 said:

H jprice,

I too have a 16yr old daughter, with various needs. Your assessment sounds an awful lot like ours except we had a telephone assessment.

Our assessment came back and it was like it was about a different person!

To cut a long story short, I complained to the assessment services and sent a copy to my MP, who thankfully also spoke to the assessment team.
What ended up happening in our case was that the senior Medical advisor for IAS went through the original assessment and submitted a further report to the DWP and a decision was made.

The complaint I made was upheld, the senior advisor concluded that the original assessor did not take the evidence submitted into consideration and that there were “a lot of unexplainable errors that the original assessor could not explain”

I truly hope you get the outcome you desire. l’m pleased I requested the report because I had the opportunity to point out the errors straightaway.

Good luck xx

Hi Levi, 
Oh wow. Not only does your post  it mirror my experience, but the process I’m now travelling. It also gives great hope.
I’ve submitted my complaint to both the dwp and assessment centre and within the last few days I’ve spoken, at length, to managers from both. I’ve send a copy of my complaint to my MP who has replied stating as the complaint is submitted please let her know the reply. If not satisfactory she will be escalating the matter.
Thank you do much for sharing your experience and well done fighting for your daughters rights. It is so refreshing to read a post like this. Thank you!
Thank you also for your hopes for the outcome for my son. I’m looking forward to my sons great testimony. 

🥰

jprice

Biblioklept said:

Sorry what do you mean @jprice?

Hi, 
I mean who are the governing body who carry out inspections to ensure standards are meet. I think it maybe the Care Quailty Commision. 

Sue_Alumni

Hi @jprice

We discussed complaining about the assessment in your previous thread Hhttps://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/539553#. If the assessment provider is unable to deal with your complaint satisfactorily you can then complain to the Independent Case Examiner and further details are given in the link I gave in thread 539553..

You might find it useful to refer to the Pip Assessment guide. Part 1 deals with the assessment process and part 2 deals with the interpretation of the PIP descriptors. Part 3 deals with the competencies of the assessor. Is this the information you were looking for?

PIP assessment guide part 3: health professional performance - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Going through the complaints process is arduous and stressful and you could be waiting a least a year for the ICE to give a decision.  You can of course make a complaint as well challenge the PIP decision but it is really important to focus on the PIP decision and, if you disagree with the DWP’s decision, make a strong challenge.  

I have merged both of the discussion threads as they are linked.

Do keep in touch and let us know how you get on.