PIP ASSESSMENT PETITION - make decision based on medical evidence

LIVEDANDLEARNED

This petition is an important one, which was sent to me. it is asking the government to award PIP based on medical evidence rather than putting people through assessments. 

Please have a read and sign if you agree:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/619481

SueHeath

I agree with the assessment as illness/disability/conditions can affect people in different ways.
For example;
My husband was diagnosed with a bladder tumor last year - it was cancerous.
Lucky for him it was diagnosed in the early stages - was very small had it removed and chemo once a week for 6 weeks as a precaution. 
He went back to work 3 weeks after his opp.
Some one else who has been diagnosed with bladder cancer, may not be so lucky.

That's why, in my mind, it has to be done with an assessment of how it affects you.

poppy123456

Medical evidence isn't always useful. Most of it doesn't state exactly how your conditions affect you. PIP isn't awarded based on any diagnosis. For this reason, no signature from me, sorry.

You can have a health condition but not be entitled to PIP. If you don't meet the descriptors, you won't score enough points needed for an award. Good luck though.

bg844

I think there should be an assessment for the majority as it is now. If your condition is severe you will most likely have a paper-based anyway (it’s rare).

Cartini

Hi,

I`m sorry, but I can`t sign this petition. 

If my application was based on my medical records I would have received 0 for both Daily Living and Mobility.

LIVEDANDLEARNED

I have offered the petition to sign ‘IF’ you agree with it, I specifically made that point so not to make anyone feel they have to agree. Many people find the assessments traumatising and often the assessors don’t make an accurate decision but try hard not to give it to people. My specialists provided specific medical evidence to say why and how my condition affects me and that is how I got my pip original decision overturned. 

The assessment for many is a horrible experience which causes them untold stress. 

So ‘IF’ you agree with the petition (not made by me but that I agree with) you can sign it  and if you don’t you can enjoy and continue your day! 

Cartini

LIVEDANDLEARNED said:

I have offered the petition to sign ‘IF’ you agree with it

I`m aware of what you said, I was being polite by providing a (what I thought was a polite) response with a reason as to why I won`t be signing it.

I understand the reason for the petition; I also acknowledge that an assessment can be a nightmare for some. But, as is the case now with assessments, one glove does not fit all.

LIVEDANDLEARNED

My message wasn’t directed at you personally, just to clarify to all what I said. We all have different views, that’s ok. That’s what a forum is for. I understand everyone has had different experiences. The petition is there to sign for anyone who agrees with it, if they feel differently, that’s fine too x 

nasturtium

I agree with the forum comments posted that PIP should be based on the amount of help you need and not on the medical evidence alone. What I would support is a petition based on more "Paper based" reviews and assesments and more information for people when they apply for PIP on how to fill the forms in with detailed and accurate information. Also more advice given to people on how to prepare for a PIP application before they apply highlighting how they can get evidence to support there claim. It could be classed a bit like a starter pack with all of the information enclosed before they claimant makes the final request for a claim so they are fully prepared when they start there claim. PIP is a very good benefit but the only thing that lets it down is a very poor assesment procedure. I agree with having assesments but they need to be reformed in my opinion.

Thanks you

Nasturtium

LIVEDANDLEARNED

I’ll be completely up front, I wasn’t against assessments at all until my assessor lied, not just a little but made up things in an unbelievable way. I’ve also heard assessors are trained in ways to catch people out. That is so unfair on people genuinely suffering. 

The assessment was a horrible process and though I won my case in the end I had to fight to get it by bombarding them with medical evidence. The whole process took me to a very dark place. 

I totally agree regarding the starter pack. After my horrible experience I joined this forum literally just to post information on how to prepare and what to be aware of, things I’d wished I’d known. So I am with you 100% on that xx 

nasturtium

LIVEDANDLEARNED said:

I’ll be completely up front, I wasn’t against assessments at all until my assessor lied, not just a little but made up things in an unbelievable way. I’ve also heard assessors are trained in ways to catch people out. That is so unfair on people genuinely suffering. 

The assessment was a horrible process and though I won my case in the end I had to fight to get it by bombarding them with medical evidence. The whole process took me to a very dark place.

If the form was filled out correctly with the right information then the assessor would have no reason to "Lie" because the anacdotal evidence would be on the claim form in black and white. The assessors are giving there "Opinion" on what you tell them on your claim form and if the information you provide does not match any of the descriptors of that activity then they cannot assess you on what your needs are based on what you put in your form and they have to do a telephone or face to face assesment. That is why it would be a good idea to provide a starter pack before anyone makes a claim to educate them what is involved in claiming PIP.

Also bombarding the DWP with "medical evidence" is not a good idea. It is not "Medical Evidence" that get you PIP unless the medical evidence explains the care needs you require or supports the problems you experience when completing the PIP activities according the the respective descriptor. The best evidence is from you or a family member or carer because they see you more and they know the problems you go through completing those activities. Also if the claimant keeps a daily disability diary that can be used as evidence.

LIVEDANDLEARNED

The assessment centre themselves said that they had fallen below the standard they want to conduct themselves with. What I’d written in black and white was not what the assessor had written after and that’s something they even admitted they done wrong and why I won my case. So it wasn’t anything I’d done. However I could’ve added more in the first place to cover those contractions but wasn’t used to the system and what to look out for. 

Anyway a starter pack is a good idea. 

nasturtium

LIVEDANDLEARNED said:

The assessment centre themselves said that they had fallen below the standard they want to conduct themselves with.

I fully agree with reforming the assesment procedure like I said in my origional post. That is the downfall of an otherwise good benefit. Thank you for supporting my "starter pack" idea.

JoeyC

I think a clinical diagnosis of certain long term chronic conditions should get you a basic level award and then you get more by explaining how your condition affects you.

nasturtium

JoeyC said:

I think a clinical diagnosis of certain long term chronic conditions should get you a basic level award and then you get more by explaining how your condition affects you.

With respect I disagree with that. The diagnosis of certain long term chronic conditions does not mean that the person with that long term condition cannot complete the activities of Personal Independence Payment relaibly. For example there are people who have spinal problems like scoliosis who have a long term chronic disability but are able to cope and manage with everyday activities reliably then there are people with scoliosis who cannot cope because there scoliosis is more severe. PIP is not about the persons disability it is about what help they need or have because of there disability or mental health problem and how they manage to complete each activity in PIP according to the descriptors relaibly.

Kind Regards

Nasturtium

poppy123456

JoeyC said:

I think a clinical diagnosis of certain long term chronic conditions should get you a basic level award and then you get more by explaining how your condition affects you.

I'm going to diagree with that too. A diagnosis doesn't mean you're automatically entitled to PIP. You can have a disability but not be entitled because if you don't meet the descriptors, you won't score the points needed for an award. There are some people that fall into the category.

Martin1957

I have recently been awarded PIP i had a assessment over the telephone and have been awarded the basic level of pip However when i read the assessment letter and how they score me its a total joke i agree some find it difficult going for face to face but i am sure if someone could have seen me and my condition i would have been awarded more as the question are to much a generalisation. Plus the medical records do not indicate the condition they only state what i have had done to me not how and what state it has left me in.

poppy123456

Martin1957 said:

I have recently been awarded PIP i had a assessment over the telephone and have been awarded the basic level of pip However when i read the assessment letter and how they score me its a total joke i agree some find it difficult going for face to face but i am sure if someone could have seen me and my condition i would have been awarded more as the question are to much a generalisation. Plus the medical records do not indicate the condition they only state what i have had done to me not how and what state it has left me in.

PIP isn't awarded based on how you look or on a diagnosis. What matters is how your conditions affect your ability to carry out the 12 PIP activities. You should get some expert advice from an agency near you to check that it's possible to score more points needed for a higher award. Start here. https://advicelocal.uk/

Sue_Alumni

Good morning

I have read through all the comments with interest and I think that a petition in the way it is phrased could be counterproductive but these are my personal views. PIP is a benefit for adults who have physical or mental disabilities and need help in taking part in everyday life and/or find it difficult to get around. It does not automatically follow that because you have disabilities you need help to carry out those activities.
  
Even if you say that as a starting point if you have a diagnosis you should have an entiltement to PIP and not have to undergo a medical assessment how would the PIP award take in that individual's abilities to carry out the particular activites without a medical assessment.  It is an important part of PIP that it is not based on diagnosis but the impact of an individual's ability, or lack of to carry out the various PIP activities.  The petition refers to medical evidence from a consultant or GP.  This evidence won't explain the difficulty a claimant has in carrying out the PIP activities.  Many people are awarded PIP without their own medical evidence.  Many GPs charge for letters which is unaffordable to many people. Supporting evidence can be obtained from support wokers and family members and relevanr evidence is not confined to medical evidence. Whilst  people with no medical evidence as such will not be prevented from applying for PIP my fear is that the odds would be stacked against them.

I do agree that the PIP process is flawed and that many claimants find the health assessment traumatic.  Where I do agree that health assessments should not be required is for existing claimants with longstanding health conditions. Their conditions may be longstanding but may not be documented by recent medical evidence. 

I think the petition is well meaning but fails to identify the main problems in the PIP process including the huge delays which should be addressed urgently. 

woodbine

I rarely if ever sign petitions and I won't be signing this one, I have has assessments for ESA and PIP and found that in all cases they were fair and reflected my problems. As already mentioned going just of medical records wouldn't most of us any favours.

[Deleted User]

If PIP was based on medical evidence I would not have gotten any award for PIP. As a Schizoprenic I am paranoid of Doctors and avoid them as much as possible, due to fear of a section order. Currently I get enhanced on both componants I have always been treated fairly by the assessment process on both PIP and ESA for the past 10 years. A lot of people fail PIP assessments because they don't meet the discriptors and because the are in the Support Group assume they are entitled to PIP and then complain. Remember it's not based on a diagnoses only how they affect you. That's why medical evidence is irrelevant.