Pension Service - Debt Management.

racyguy

Had a lovely letter a few weeks ago from the PS telling me that I owe them £67 for overpaid Pension Credit.
Seems they paid me one week too many following the closure of the claim. I took the view at the time that if their systems are that bad that they managed to pay another week and a bit then that is their problem not mine.
Anyhow yesterday I had a letter from DWP Debt Management telling me that they had issued instructions to collect the debt via an attachment to a small pension of mine that pays £20 a month.
I telephone them and told them that the level of income from that pension would not allow a deduction to be made.
Then I was told that they would instead put it in the hands of a debt collection agency to seize goods or collect payment in full.

Has anybody had any dealings with these people and can they instruct bailiffs to collect or seize without having a court order?

ShirleyW

racyguy said:

Had a lovely letter a few weeks ago from the PS telling me that I owe them £67 for overpaid Pension Credit.
Seems they paid me one week too many following the closure of the claim. I took the view at the time that if their systems are that bad that they managed to pay another week and a bit then that is their problem not mine.
Anyhow yesterday I had a letter from DWP Debt Management telling me that they had issued instructions to collect the debt via an attachment to a small pension of mine that pays £20 a month.
I telephone them and told them that the level of income from that pension would not allow a deduction to be made.
Then I was told that they would instead put it in the hands of a debt collection agency to seize goods or collect payment in full.

Has anybody had any dealings with these people and can they instruct bailiffs to collect or seize without having a court order?

I thought they were able to collect overpayments from your State Pension. 🤔 

racyguy

ShirleyW said:

I thought they were able to collect overpayments from your State Pension. 🤔 

Me too. But the lady I spoke to was not impressed when I told her that going after any of my private pensions would never happen - the figures are far too small. She then told me that she is handing the collection over to debt collectors (a third party was her actual words).
Oh well I will have to wait and see what happens. The Pension Service are seemingly trying to really wind me up - ridiculous really that for the past 6 months they would have paid me in excess of £1300 if the PC claim had continued!

calcotti

If they go to a debt collection agency your debt will I think increase because there will be fees added to the debt.

poppy123456

An overpayment does need to be repaid back and yes i know i'm stating the obvious here. Wouldn't it be easier to just set up a small payment plan for a couple of pounds a week?

racyguy

poppy123456 said:

An overpayment does need to be repaid back and yes i know i'm stating the obvious here. Wouldn't it be easier to just set up a small payment plan for a couple of pounds a week?

What a great idea and believe me it is what I suggested at the start of the telephone call with them. However they dismissed the idea out of hand by telling me that any option to repay that way finished weeks ago - to be precise after 30 days of the date of the original PS letter telling me about the overpayment. Beyond that 30 day period the options now are have it collected direct from my employer (retired with no job) or deal with a debt collector. I argued the point asking as to what part of the legislation says all of that - just silence.
I would pay it like now if I had the money. Do I short change my next CT payment or maybe the gas & electric account?

racyguy

woodbine said:

I'm genuinely sorry you are having these problems but yes a debt does have to be repaid and they will use any means open to them to collect the debt, my advice would be to repay the debt.
It also has to be said that had you continued to claim PC this would not have occurred and you would as you say been £1300 better off, you seem willing and able to take issue on this forum in great depth but unwilling to spend a little time making the claim and iirc you even turned away help.
Good luck

The nitty gritty - I want to settle the debt along with the debt I have with EON. But there is genuinely no more money available to do so.
Not wanting to repeat myself, I would love to fill out a new claim form - that is not where the problem is - it's the weekly/monthly maintenance of that claim that I find far too difficult and where no one has said that they would take that work on free of charge.
I could take your advice and make the claim but all that I would end up again with more compliance/fraud investigations due to not being able to make weekly/monthly change of circumstance reports. As I have said before I have been through two of those since 2019. Are you suggesting that that is the way forward for me? 

poppy123456

Back in April you said you had a letter from PC telling you they are writing off a debt of £25. Almost 5 months later they write again telling you, you owe £67.

racyguy

poppy123456 said:

Back in April you said you had a letter from PC telling you they are writing off a debt of £25. Almost 5 months later they write again telling you, you owe £67.

Correct!
During the last DWP investigation (covering the period November 2019 to December 2021) they looked at the income from my private sources. They calculated each one and the resulting overpayments ranged from £25 up to £63. Because all of the overpayments were below the minimum that they collect - £65, the DWP wrote them all off.
This current one is for the Pension Service continuing to pay the PC for a week and a bit after the date of my letter asking for the award to be cancelled.
Effectively the Pension Service were slow in closing down the claim and they issued this extra money. One would imagine that my letter sat there for at least a week before they took any action. 

poppy123456

racyguy said:

One would imagine that my letter sat there for at least a week before they took any action. 

When you take into consideration the backlogs at the moment im surprised there’s only 1 week owing. 

racyguy

woodbine said:

Round and round again we go in ever increasing circles, I'm really not sure now what you expect any of us to say, what advice you expect us to offer ?

Two things that I need help on or advice.
1. As regards the DWP debt - How can I force Debt Management to agree to some level of payment by instalments?
They have refused to offer it to me preferring to go with direct collection or debt collectors.

2. How do I get the DWP (Pension Service) to offer suitable adjustments if I made a new PC claim?
I have suggested that they use the starting figure of my pensions and I would then in April give them a copy of my P60's. It is not suitable for me to have to issue reports etc every month if the increases are only 15p up one month and down 15p the next month.

racyguy

poppy123456 said:

racyguy said:

One would imagine that my letter sat there for at least a week before they took any action. 

When you take into consideration the backlogs at the moment im surprised there’s only 1 week owing. 

I agree but whose fault is that? Should I really have to repay something that was created by their own staffing issues. Why did the Pension Service not realise that they had made another payment in error. It would have been so easy for them to use the date they looked at my letter as the date that the claim should have been closed - why back date it.

racyguy

Teddybear12 said:

Hi @racyguy  You could make life easier for yourself if you just asked at the beginning of any overpayments, or bills you owe for a repayment plan. You seem quite articulate when posting on the forum. Good luck with sorting it out. 
P.S. Do you not automatically get a wage slip each month for your private pensions I do.

I had two letters about 4 weeks apart. The first from Pension Service setting out how they have calculated the overpayment and telling me that Debt Management will be in touch, The second Debt Management telling me that they have given instructions for the debt to be collected direct from one of my pension providers.
Following the second letter I telephoned them to say good luck in that their attempt to collect it that way will fail due to the size of the pension. That's when they said 'oh, well it's going through a third party now to get the money'
Offering a repayment plan is one thing, actually having the money to pay it is another. I am down to my last £10 in the bank and it is treated as a buffer if we need some milk or bread etc.
What is killing us is the monthly cost for gas and electricity- currently £220 a month up from £120 then from October it will be £375 a month. So far the only help from the government for the COL we have had is £150 Council Tax rebate.
   
No all I get is notification once a year of how much the pension will be for the forthcoming year. Then in April I get a P60.

racyguy

woodbine said:

With my private pension I get a statement from them each year telling me what they will pay me each month and I send that to the DWP each year, @racyguy could you not ask your pension providers to equalise your payments in a similar way, explaining why that would be easier for you?

Do you pay tax on your pension?
If so you will realise that the amount taken off each week/month differs by 15p/20p. The pension provider has no control over the tax system, they have to deduct what they have to deduct with each month differing. The gross remains fixed but not the tax. That's where the problem lies.

poppy123456

woodbine said:

racyguy said:

Teddybear12 said:

Hi @racyguy  You could make life easier for yourself if you just asked at the beginning of any overpayments, or bills you owe for a repayment plan. You seem quite articulate when posting on the forum. Good luck with sorting it out. 
P.S. Do you not automatically get a wage slip each month for your private pensions I do.

I had two letters about 4 weeks apart. The first from Pension Service setting out how they have calculated the overpayment and telling me that Debt Management will be in touch, The second Debt Management telling me that they have given instructions for the debt to be collected direct from one of my pension providers.
Following the second letter I telephoned them to say good luck in that their attempt to collect it that way will fail due to the size of the pension. That's when they said 'oh, well it's going through a third party now to get the money'
Offering a repayment plan is one thing, actually having the money to pay it is another. I am down to my last £10 in the bank and it is treated as a buffer if we need some milk or bread etc.
What is killing us is the monthly cost for gas and electricity- currently £220 a month up from £120 then from October it will be £375 a month. So far the only help from the government for the COL we have had is £150 Council Tax rebate.
   
No all I get is notification once a year of how much the pension will be for the forthcoming year. Then in April I get a P60.

You will have £300 to come as pensioners,

That would be on top of the usual winter fuel payment. All of which has been advised many many times here. Those ever descreasing circles you mentioned early are getting bigger by the week.

racyguy

poppy123456 said:

You will have £300 to come as pensioners,

That would be on top of the usual winter fuel payment. All of which has been advised many many times here. Those ever descreasing circles you mentioned early are getting bigger by the week.

Now I am confused. Is not the WFP only for those now claiming a means tested benefit? I know I used to get it but that was because I get PIP and my wife gets AA.
Anyhow whatever the government decide to send us will be a help not only to clear the EON debt, but also to pay off the DWP debt. As for October onwards we just hope and pray that we will have enough to pay the Council Tax so as to get rid of the court order by bext March.
As for more money coming our way I really doubt that there will be that much to make a difference given that families with young children on Universal Credit are a more compelling category to provide more for. 

janer1967

The winter fuel payment is for all on state pension 

The warm home discount is for those claiming means tested benefits 

They are both separate payments 

poppy123456

racyguy said:

poppy123456 said:

You will have £300 to come as pensioners,

That would be on top of the usual winter fuel payment. All of which has been advised many many times here. Those ever descreasing circles you mentioned early are getting bigger by the week.

Now I am confused. Is not the WFP only for those now claiming a means tested benefit? I know I used to get it but that was because I get PIP and my wife gets AA.

No and you have been advised of this several times accross many different threads. The WFP has nothing to do with your PIP or AA.

Your disability benefits will entitle you each to £150 this month but this has nothing to do with the WFP.