PIP appeal

schoolmum

Hi @tifo
I do know what a worrying time you must be going through as the process involved in our journey through PIP causes alot of worry, unrest and often disappointment.

As @tomm quite correctly points out above there is a difference in the descriptors/criteria for PIP and ESA. 

You state you were awarded 6 points but which was the award of 6 points given for:
(d) (i) or (ii)

As the reason you gave is not an actual descriptor...
"WCA tribunal had given me 6 points for being able to walk up to 200 metres"

ESA
(d) Cannot either:
(i) mobilise more than 200 metres on level ground without stopping in order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion;
or
(ii) repeatedly mobilise 200 metres within a reasonable timescale because of significant discomfort or exhaustion.
6 Points

As you can see either or can award 6 points for ESA but while appearing similar are very different to each other and not totally applicable to what warrants a PIP mobility award.
Unless read in indepth detail it's very easy to think they are the same.

PIP - Mobility Activities 
Activity Descriptors Points
a. Can stand and then move more than 200 metres,
either aided or unaided.
0 points
b. Can stand and then move more than 50 metres
but no more than 200 metres, either aided or
unaided
4 points
c. Can stand and then move unaided more than 20
metres but no more than 50 metres.
8 points
d. Can stand and then move using an aid or
appliance more than 20 metres but no more than 50
metres.
10 points
e. Can stand and then move more than 1 metre but
no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided.
12 points
2. Moving
around
f. Cannot, either aided or unaided, –
(i) stand; or
(ii) move more than 1 metre.
12 points

Which PIP descriptor do you think is appropriate for your conditions and wanting to be awarded as if it was...

b. Can stand and then move more than 50 metres
but no more than 200 metres, either aided or
unaided

Then this is still only 4 points and you would need a minimum of 8 for PIP mobility.

Kind regards
Schoolmum

tifo

Should i post my statement of reasons here, minus personal info? It may help with advice.

tifo

calcotti said:

I accept that OP has, by his own account, been advised by Shelter, having seen the SOR, that there are no grounds in his case.

I feel this is more to do with lack of staff than anything else, the welfare advisor they have is on sick, the manager would not say how long for, and mentioned that they're looking for another welfare advisor.

The manager did not seem to know some of the info she was telling me, for example thinking that the refusal of permission to appeal from the lower tribunal for my WCA claim meant that it was the end of it, I had to explain that I can ask for this permission from the upper tribunal, and that the lower tribunal sent me the forms, but she did not seem to understand this. Initially she thought the refusal was from the upper tribunal. There were a few other things she said which did not add up.

poppy123456

tifo said:

Should i post my statement of reasons here, minus personal info? It may help with advice.

No because this isn't the place to do that because we are not experts.

tifo

poppy123456 said:

tifo said:

Should i post my statement of reasons here, minus personal info? It may help with advice.

No because this isn't the place to do that because we are not experts.

OK, I just thought it might help.

poppy123456

Are you aware that there's also a 1 month time limit to ask for permision to appeal? full details here. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/716361/utaac-faq-eng.pdf

I think the time limit starts from when the SOR was sent to you from HMCTS.

tifo

GMWRAGtweets said:

Clearly a failure to explain the preference of one piece of evidence over another might amount to an error of law.

I'll read it again and see if I can find anything.

GMWRAGtweets said:

a difference of opinion over the evidence itself is not an error of law. The OP has focused on a difference of opinion and not a failure to explain why.

I understand this.

tifo

calcotti said:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/633ad1ab8fa8f54111498efa/UA-2021-000155-PIPc_.pdf

Interesting read. Is this case still valid for me as it was after my hearing in June?

tifo

schoolmum said:

PIP - Mobility Activities 
Activity Descriptors Points
a. Can stand and then move more than 200 metres,
either aided or unaided.
0 points
b. Can stand and then move more than 50 metres
but no more than 200 metres, either aided or
unaided
4 points
c. Can stand and then move unaided more than 20
metres but no more than 50 metres.
8 points
d. Can stand and then move using an aid or
appliance more than 20 metres but no more than 50
metres.
10 points
e. Can stand and then move more than 1 metre but
no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided.
12 points
2. Moving
around
f. Cannot, either aided or unaided, –
(i) stand; or
(ii) move more than 1 metre.
12 points

Which PIP descriptor do you think is appropriate for your conditions and wanting to be awarded as if it was...

b. Can stand and then move more than 50 metres
but no more than 200 metres, either aided or
unaided

Then this is still only 4 points and you would need a minimum of 8 for PIP mobility.

I don't agree with the WCA tribunal and say, at severe times I cannot walk more than a few metres, which happens a lot and limits are 20 metres or 50 metres. The points should've been for 50 metres within the WCA descriptor. There is no 20 metres descriptor.

With PIP I believe I should have received c) Can stand and then move unaided more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres, which gives me the lower award with 8 points. I may accept that it is not severe enough for a long enough time to award e), though this applies at severe times and I cannot walk more than 20 metres.

However, in the PIP mobility activities I believe I should have been awarded at least b) Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant.

So b) for journey and c) for moving around give 12 points which is the higher rate. Even b) for moving around upto 200 metres and b) for journey would give me 8 points which is the lower award.

I got 2 points in the 'managing therapy' descriptor which is fine.

tifo

calcotti said:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/633ad1ab8fa8f54111498efa/UA-2021-000155-PIPc_.pdf

Interesting read. Is this case still valid for me as it was after my hearing in June?

tifo

poppy123456 said:

Are you aware that there's also a 1 month time limit to ask for permision to appeal?

Because Shelter wanted 4 weeks after my appt in mid Nov, which I waited for 5 weeks, i requested and got given an extension until 13 December. I did this through SSCSA and I got an email back saying this has been done.

They said "The District Judge has agreed to extend the date for Leave to Appeal to the Upper Tribunal to 13/12/22" which is for my WCA appeal but the court said it's for both deadlines, i.e. the PIP and WCA deadlines are the same, PIP is one process behind.

poppy123456

Can’t view those links because you need to be a member of rightsnet, which I’m not.

chiarieds

Hi @GMWRAGtweets - a person will be unable to read your links just above if they're not subscribed to rightsnet.

tifo

I'm not over any absolute (13 months) time limit. There is a 1 month time limit to ask for permission to appeal and i've extended this with permission from the court.

But i understand what you're saying in case it's relevant.

tifo

Hi, i'm going to have to do the permission to appeal (lower tribunal) myself unless i find someone to help. It's due within 2 weeks.

Any advice would be helpful as i'm going to draft the request.

Thanks

poppy123456

We have no idea about your case so it’s not possible to give any advice. You need to find another advice agency.

tifo

My claim is as posted on this thread. I've said what's happened at all parts of the claim. Thanks

poppy123456

That's your version, we can't see the SOR or ROP so can't give any advice because we don't know enough about your case.

tifo

GMWRAGtweets said:

Is there some reason you can’t approach Lancashire Welfare Rights? See https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/benefits-and-grants/benefits-advice/contact-us/

I contacted them when i was looking, they also pointed me to Shelter who are the welfare advisors in my town.

L_Volunteer

How do you feel it went being pointed to Shelter @tifo? Please don't hesitate to let us know if we can do anything else to support you