Confusing situation re:- 2nd tribunal snd change of circumstances

buffy6956

I applied for daily living pip got 2 points did MR still 2 points went to tribunal got 6 points so no award. Asked for statement of reasons found an error of law asked for permission to upper tribunal. Judge agreed with me and said it doesn’t need to go to upper tribunal as it’s blatantly clear that there are errors of law snd inconsistencies in it and has ordered a new tribunal for 10 nov however in the meantime even though I had no award in place I needed to ask for a change of circumstances as I now have to wear hearing aids which should give me an automatic 2 points which if added to the 6 I had from tribunal should score 8 points if they don’t take any points off me!  I’m aware they can take points away as well but anyway I did the change of circumstances and had my telephone assessment yesterday. What’s going to happen now if DWP still don’t award me but tribunal does in 3 weeks time? I guess it doesn’t matter much if DWP do award me because if I get awarded from tribunal for daily living standard then that would be from  April 2021 till June 2022 when I did the change of circumstances and then if DWP award me it will continue from June 2022 till now I’m guessing but it’s if I don’t get awarded from DWP I’m worried about… what a mess!!!!

poppy123456

Your new claim will be a completely new claim because although you were awarded 6 points, it's not enough for an award so you have nothing to take away points for. 

For the daily living part there's 10 activities ranging from dressing/undressing, washing, preparing a meal, engaging with others, making budgeting decisions etc etc. You need to score at least 8 points between either of those for an award.

For the mobility part there's 2 activities, moving around and following and planning a journey. You need to score at least 8 points for a standard award. 12 points for Enhanced.

To answer your question if you win the Tribunal decision then you will receive money for that from the time you first applied up until the day before you started the new claim.

If the new claim doesn't go in your favour then the process starts again. If you're awarded then it starts from when you rang to start the claim and will continue going forward, you will have a length of time for the award with a review about 6 months before the end date.

buffy6956

Ty so much for clarifying I only wish I’d known it would be like a whole new award snd my existing points wouldn’t be taken into consideration because then to be quite honest I wouldn’t of bothered… so basically if I loose my new claim but win my tribunal I have to take my new claim to MR where I can then send my decision notice that I got from tribunal and my reasons for appealing in the hope it may have some clout for me and then if that fails then back to tribunal again it seems is that correct? Ty

buffy6956

It just seems a very unfair way of doing things because if I hadn’t done a change of circumstances then won my tribunal then I would have a claim in payment but if I loose my DWP then my tribunal only counts for the last year… will it get backdated please if I do win it? 

poppy123456

You should always get expert advice before starting a new claim while waiting for a Tribunal hearing. I don't know why you thought the 6 points would count for the new claim because you don't have an award in payment so you have no points at all.

buffy6956 said:

 so basically if I loose my new claim but win my tribunal I have to take my new claim to MR where I can then send my decision notice that I got from tribunal

Yes the process starts again. If you win the Tribunal decision then you can send that decision for the MR, if needed.

buffy6956 said:

my tribunal only counts for the last year… will it get backdated please if I do win it? 

If the Tribunal award you then your award will start from when you first applied and end the day before your new claim started. It's what's known as a "closed period" i think.

Have you told HMCTS that you started a new claim?

buffy6956

@poppy123456 in my letter to the judge asking for permission to appeal to upper tribunal I did say that I had put in for a change of circumstances yes…. What if I cancel my claim before they make a decision on it snd take my chances with tribunal…. Would that work then if I did win at tribunal? 

buffy6956

@poppy123456 also will the DWP be able to see the statement of reasons snd why they awarded me the 6 points or eont they be looking at that at all?  

poppy123456

You can't cancel the PIP claim now. Your PIP claim was a new claim, not a change of circumstances because you didn't have an award in place.

Thinking about the more although you were awarded 6 points from the previous panel, this doesn't mean you'll receive the same 6 points this time. It will be a different panel who will look at your case again and make another decision.

If the worst happens with the new PIP claim and you're refused, if the Tribunal rule in your favour and award you PIP you can send that decision with your MR request.

However, do bear in mind that for the Tribunal, they won't take into consideration any worsening of condition.

buffy6956

@poppy123456 Ty again for your reply but I’ve been reading on here about others who have been awaiting tribunal but done a new claim and I think it was you along with others who advised them to cancel the new claim so why wouldn’t I be able too? It’s really weird because when I called up I just asked for a change of circumstances form and they gave me that I filled it out and sent it back and wasn’t asked to do anything else? Oh btw I was awarded mobility 10 points at previous tribunal for being unable to undertake any journey without it causing me overwhelming psych distress si that may be taken from me too then unless I cancel new claim? 

poppy123456

You’ve already had your assessment. So it’s too late to cancel the change of circumstances now. 

buffy6956 said
Oh btw I was awarded mobility 10 points at previous tribunal for being unable to undertake any journey without it causing me overwhelming psych distress si that may be taken from me too then unless I cancel new claim? 

You never mentioned that at all in any of your above comments. My advice is based on the information you gave. I can’t advise correctly unless you give all the correct information. 
When you report a change of circumstances your award could either stay the same, be increased or you could be refused. 

janer1967

Also bear in mind the tribunal will only look at your condition at the time of your assessment and not any change as that 7s the decision you are appealing not the new change as no decision has been made on that 

Your new claim will look at the both elements mobility and daily living 

I presume from what you said above about mobility you do have a pip award in place so then yes it will be a change and not a new claim you didn't say before that you had been awarded mobility 

buffy6956

@poppy123456 I have to apologise to you because yes I did omit the fact that I get mobility and yes your right in saying you can give full facts do for that I apologise snd I’m grateful for your responses as well… so I absolutely can’t cancel my new claim then now? I feel like I’m going to loose my mobility and score maybe 4 points on daily living if I’m too go by previous DWP assessments… it seems the only ones who apply law correctly are the tribunals it’s very unfair 

buffy6956

@janer1967 ty for the reply… can I ask you… would u know whether the DWP will be looking at all my previous paperwork including my tribunal statement of facts etc when considering my change of circumstances? Will they look at the tribunals scoring and reasons snd take that into consideration as well? It was only February that I was awarded mobility with a 2 year review 

poppy123456

You can’t cancel the change of circumstances because the assessment has been completed.
Im not sure if they look at the Tribunal decision before making the decision on your CoC. There was nothing stopping you sending that decision as evidence when you returned the form.

buffy6956

@poppy123456 ty… I did say in my COC that my conditions that I had acquired points for from tribunal were still the same except my mental health was now worse since my son left home and I had the vaccine injury causing me to smell smoke that isn’t there… so maybe they will look at tribunal report? Although it’s not really going to help me because the SOR was full of errors of law and the new judge who ordered the new tribunal stated as his reasons that not enough evidence was given for the descriptor choice and that their reasoning was illogical as my mobility award was more or less invalidated by my daily living face to face award snd that he says they didn’t even seem to consider 9d for engaging face to face… hopefully they may see that seeing as he set the original tribunal aside.

poppy123456

All you can do for your CoC is wait for the decision because it's impossible to speculate anything at this point.