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Nursing Strikes, What does everyone think?

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Dont_Dis_My_Ability
Dont_Dis_My_Ability Community member Posts: 8 Connected
edited November 2022 in Coffee lounge

I personally don’t support the nurses strike, I do believe people will die because of it plus cause even more delays as we haven’t caught up after COVID.

While I agree pay needs to change across the board, I can’t support the amount they are asking. They got a 3% raise when everyone got 0% under the public sector freeze AND that means than any additional increase this year is based on a higher figure so you don’t just add them…

If they got the 17.6% that they are asking for then the total pay rise wouldn’t be (3% + 17.6% = 20.6%) It would actually be (3% x 17.6% = 21.1%) in total AND they got an extra 3% for a year when others didn’t If that’s what we should be paying them then fine but I highly doubt they are under paid by 20% and everyone else in the public sector is supposedly fine with only a 1% (or 3% for some) so no one else is under paid?

The statistics shows Nurse Vaccines are going down (It’s still to high I know that) and also Nursing applications and places have been increasing over the last 10 years with places rising from 19,000 in 2011/12 to 29,000 in 2021/22 (that’s a 52.6% increase!) Only 45.65% of all the Registered Nurses in the UK work in the NHS. As well as those who are agency workers, others will probably include private healthcare, some working in care, a few on maternity leave, etc.

I think like many I’ve had horrendous experiences and the ”care” I’ve received has caused PTSD. I do understand they need more pay but so does everyone, there is so much anger from other public sector people about this. I understand it my partner is public sector, he got 1% he earns nothing and he’s been told he won’t get a raise any time soon. His last one was in 2019, he was top of his band which is why he only got 1%. 

If this goes ahead newly qualified nurses will earn more than him. He has a degree and accounting qualifications plus he has over 10 years experience in his field. He already looses 20 grand working in the public sector, it’s insulting that a newly qualified nurse is paid more than him. (This is comparing it to London wages, London nurses have an uplift).

They aren’t the only ones, I so badly want to support them but I’m not convinced. I feel like it’s taking away money from people who also don’t earn a lot, I do believe striking will cause deaths. My last admission this summer was horrendous, i had to feed and give water daily to other patients. The nurses and HCA’s just say on their phones ignoring call bells and patients pleading for water. 

I hope I’m in the minority here but I can’t remember a single positive admission. I’m always feeding and giving water to people, sometimes I even take them the toilet. I only do this if they have tried to get help and are just ignored. Three times I tried to do something silly while being an inpatient, I begged the nurses to bleep Pysch. They didn’t, they didn’t even remove sharps and also left my medication unlocked so I overdosed and self harmed. I tell every single person who’s on shift about my mental health, how to deal with it and what to do. These things shouldn’t even be happening, I think that’s why I can’t support them. It’s also happened more than once that I’m thanked and given chocolates or flowers by family members because of what I’ve done. Personally I can’t not do anything they remind me on my grandparents and I can’t listen to that I can’t. 

I just want to see the other side, have a discussion like we did about with them Means Tested Disability Benefit. It was so interesting and refreshing to have a debate that didn’t turn into name calling and nastiness. 

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Comments

  • Dont_Dis_My_Ability
    Dont_Dis_My_Ability Community member Posts: 8 Connected
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    @Teddybear12 thank you, I feel like I’m going insane. People don’t understand my point of view at all, it’s interesting that others feel the same. I’m waiting too and have already been called pre warning me it could take 6 months. 

    The one downside of technology is access the news, many people just read the news article and not actually see the facts. 
  • Cartini
    Cartini Community member Posts: 1,108 Pioneering
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    It`s my belief that anyone responsible for civil safety should not be allowed to strike; that covers the military (who can`t strike anyway), police (who can`t strike anyway), fire brigade, ambulance service and nurses & doctors.  Because of this, I don` support the nurses striking despite having a sister working for the NHS.  I do agree, however, that they do deserve a pay rise but not the % they are asking for.  The %, by the way, isn`t what the nurses are asking for, it`s the loonatics running the unions that are calling for it.

    "He already looses 20 grand working in the public sector, it’s insulting that a newly qualified nurse is paid more"
    Why is it insulting?  That`s the way the cookie crumbles.


  • kitkat23
    kitkat23 Community member Posts: 64 Pioneering
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    Yes nurses should definitely be able to strike if they want....the pay is abysmal for what they do....I wish them all the best
  • Grinchy
    Grinchy Community member Posts: 1,932 Disability Gamechanger
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    We all stood uselessly clapping on the doorstep, now its time they got a decent pay rise, i support them
  • RetroRemix
    RetroRemix Community member Posts: 165 Pioneering
    edited November 2022
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    I wish them the best too. But only if they can somehow manage to reduce the impact the strike will have on the people who need their help right now though. I don't want it to cause too much disruption to the NHS.

    But I've been reading stories that some of them are even having to visit food banks after work... so clearly the pay is not enough for all the bills and expenses they have to pay. 

    Many seem to be happy to pay MPs and council leaders more every year for the same amount of work (And that is not including their expenses that they use to claim their second homes on the taxpayer)... so why can't people be happy to pay more for the people that work tirelessly every day to help save our lives?
  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Community member Posts: 16,176 Disability Gamechanger
    edited November 2022
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    I could seem wrong here, but my belief has always been that you know the wages you'll be paid beforehand, then it's up to you to apply/consider/remain in the job.
    It's a long time ago, but as a student physio I heard 2 of the ladies who served meals in the hospital's canteen discussing their wages.....that's when I realised that, once qualified, I'd earn less than them. It didn't dissuade me from wanting to become a physio however.
    Even then (as a student) things were disrupted by strikes. I remember one by porters; there I was at the time in a physio department, waiting for our patients to appear. Some qualified physios were apparently members of a union, so didn't want to do anything. I urged other students to follow me to collect our patients & wheel them along to our department instead.
    So, agree with @Cartini - & add physios, radiologists, etc. to your list.
  • Cartini
    Cartini Community member Posts: 1,108 Pioneering
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    I wish them the best too. But only if they can somehow manage to reduce the impact the strike will have on the people who need their help right now though. I don't want it to cause too much disruption to the NHS.

    But I've been reading stories that some of them are even having to visit food banks after work... so clearly the pay is not enough for all the bills and expenses they have to pay. 

    Many seem to be happy to pay MPs and council leaders more every year for the same amount of work (And that is not including their expenses that they use to claim their second homes on the taxpayer)... so why can't people be happy to pay more for the people that work tirelessly every day to help save our lives?
    You`ve got that completely wrong; nobody is saying that nurses shouldn`t be paid more.  People, myself included, are saying they shouldn`t be allowed to strike (as I said further up, anyone responsible for civil safety should not be allowed to strike).

  • RetroRemix
    RetroRemix Community member Posts: 165 Pioneering
    edited November 2022
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    "You`ve got that completely wrong; nobody is saying that nurses shouldn`t be paid more.  People, myself included, are saying they shouldn`t be allowed to strike (as I said further up, anyone responsible for civil safety should not be allowed to strike)."

    (Cartini, I'm sorry for quoting like this, I'm still getting the hang of the quoting another person's post and I still mess it up a lot)

    Oh, I meant people outside this forum too. I read a lot of the comment sections of news websites where people say this, that the people who work in the NHS and NHS already "get enough". But it is not enough for them if they are having to rely on foodbanks.

    I'm sorry that I did not make it clear who I was talking about/to. And I agree with adding other NHS professions such as cardio, physio etc to the list too. They all work hard every day and night to help save our lives and make our lives better, so they should get a pay rise. 

    I'm not 100% behind the strikes that will impact lives, but I am 100% behind a pay rise.
  • Cartini
    Cartini Community member Posts: 1,108 Pioneering
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    "You`ve got that completely wrong; nobody is saying that nurses shouldn`t be paid more.  People, myself included, are saying they shouldn`t be allowed to strike (as I said further up, anyone responsible for civil safety should not be allowed to strike)."

    (Cartini, I'm sorry for quoting like this, I'm still getting the hang of the quoting another person's post and I still mess it up a lot)

    Oh, I meant people outside this forum too. I read a lot of the comment sections of news websites where people say this, that the people who work in the NHS and NHS already "get enough". But it is not enough for them if they are having to rely on foodbanks.

    I'm sorry that I did not make it clear who I was talking about/to. And I agree with adding other NHS professions such as cardio, physio etc to the list too. They all work hard every day and night to help save our lives and make our lives better, so they should get a pay rise. 
    Hi RetroRemix,
    No problem, I`m as guilty - I was only thinking from the nurse point of view.  Maybe I shouldn`t reply after a glass of Pinot Grigio :#
    Andy

  • RetroRemix
    RetroRemix Community member Posts: 165 Pioneering
    edited November 2022
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    No, it's alright :)

    A lot of people tell me I should be more clear about who I talk about and to. I mix up a lot of my posts like that, (talking of something that seems unrelated to others but it's related to me)... but I am getting better at it!
  • janer1967
    janer1967 Community member Posts: 21,964 Disability Gamechanger
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    I'm going to be a bit controversial here 

    Not all nurses or NHS are busy hard working having spent a lot of time in hospital both in and out patient and observed a lot of staff including doctors 

    Yes they work long shifts bit tbh some are rushed off their feet and over worked bug then others don't do great deal depends what dept / ward they are on 

    Example recently had day surgery there were 2 nurses on ward and 4 patients for morning session 

    They checked each one in who all had same arrival time . Then brought gowns when ready to go to theatre.  Porter then took us to theatre and back 
    Once back on ward each patient given cup tea and biscuits 

    After 1 hour patients were discharged which the nurses went through after care 

    That is all they did rest of time sat in tea room chatting 
  • Geoark
    Geoark Community member Posts: 1,472 Disability Gamechanger
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    I can agree to remove their right to strike, put their pay increase to an independent body and stop it from being a political football.

    As an individual I stood alone.
    As a member of a group I did things.
    As part of a community I helped to create change!

  • wendy41
    wendy41 Community member Posts: 228 Pioneering
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    Damn right they should strike! They've taken ENOUGH BS! TELL IT LIKE IT IS.......WALK! ACTION WITH YOUR FEET! STRIKE! UP THE STRIKERS! 
  • SueHeath
    SueHeath Community member Posts: 12,420 Disability Gamechanger
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    I'm on the fence with this one, i'm afraid.
    In the past i have worked with feeding vulnerable young people,employed by the council, so public sector worker.
    We were  encouraged to strike a number of times, by Unison, for better pay, within the education system.
    I never went on strike, simply because i worried about the students, people used to say i was stupid, the kids wont starve, if they havn't eaten for the odd day or two, but i was passionate about my job.
    I do not know if it still works the same, but if ever we had new uniforms and higher wage increase, we would only be penalised by the firm tweaking the staffing levels, so they could afford the increase.
  • bg844
    bg844 Community member Posts: 3,887 Disability Gamechanger
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    I agree with Cartini. This is like a strike nation lately and other sectors are often ‘jumping on the bandwagon’.
  • Siwheels73
    Siwheels73 Scope Member Posts: 748 Pioneering
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    I completely disagree, @bg844 and @Cartini. I believe that the whole NHS should be able to strike if they feel the need, and the pay proposals that are being offered at the moment are utterly pathetic for the amount of work we ask them to do. After all, how many of us here would be in a far worse position, if it weren't for their continued work, over long hours and with poor conditions, and that is BEFORE the COVID issues.

    @janer1967, I am surprised by what you report you saw. It was a quiet day, by the number of patients, but to say that Nurses in general didn't seem to be working hard from that experience is shocking to me. I thought you were more understanding than that.
  • Cartini
    Cartini Community member Posts: 1,108 Pioneering
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    I completely disagree, @bg844 and @Cartini. I believe that the whole NHS should be able to strike if they feel the need, and the pay proposals that are being offered at the moment are utterly pathetic for the amount of work we ask them to do. After all, how many of us here would be in a far worse position, if it weren't for their continued work, over long hours and with poor conditions, and that is BEFORE the COVID issues.

    @janer1967, I am surprised by what you report you saw. It was a quiet day, by the number of patients, but to say that Nurses in general didn't seem to be working hard from that experience is shocking to me. I thought you were more understanding than that.
    So the day you need emergency medical treatment from the NHS is the day they NHS goes on strike. Not a very good outlook for you.

    You consider 17.6% pay rise as pathetic?  I consider it disgusting; nobody, but nobody, is worth a 17.6% pay rise.
    I hope they do get a pay rise, but not the rise the Royal College of Nursing is demanding.

  • Emma52
    Emma52 Community member Posts: 45 Courageous
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    Some may feel that people may die if the nurses strike. However, if this situation where nurses work 5 days for the equivalent of 4 days pay (due to wages not matching inflation), many will leave the profession. Many have left already.
    With that said how many people have or will die for lack of nursing staff caused by underpay and the ingratitude of this Conservative government.
    The NHS can not hire agency staff indefinitely to replace nurses who have left or are off work due to stress related illness.
    This leaves me with the conclusion that more people will suffer or die due to Conservative unwillingness to listen and change the situation than a nurses strike would.
    The math is simple: How long are the Conservatives expected to remain in power versus how long a nurses strike would take to resolve the issue, equalling how many patients will suffer as a result.
  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Community member Posts: 16,176 Disability Gamechanger
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    I have to support @janer1967 here @Siwheels73 - nowhere did she say nurses 'in general' didn't seem to be hard working from her personal experience, rather 'not all' are.
    Similarly, one of my gripes years ago was about 'some' nursing staff. I used to daily go on to one particular ward, & a nurse would come out of the room where they were all drinking coffee, etc., saying it's OK, it's just the physio. For the length of the time I was on the ward there wasn't a single nurse around as it was presumed I would let them know if any of the children were having an epileptic attack (& many of them did suffer from epilepsy), tho I used to say I can't watch them all & treat a child at the same time.
    I've met such nurses since (including when I was in hospitalised following a fractured neck of femur a few years ago), & I've also met some absolutely dedicated treasures who go the extra mile.
  • Cartini
    Cartini Community member Posts: 1,108 Pioneering
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    Emma52 said:
    Some may feel that people may die if the nurses strike. However, if this situation where nurses work 5 days for the equivalent of 4 days pay (due to wages not matching inflation), many will leave the profession. Many have left already.
    With that said how many people have or will die for lack of nursing staff caused by underpay and the ingratitude of this Conservative government.
    The NHS can not hire agency staff indefinitely to replace nurses who have left or are off work due to stress related illness.
    This leaves me with the conclusion that more people will suffer or die due to Conservative unwillingness to listen and change the situation than a nurses strike would.
    The math is simple: How long are the Conservatives expected to remain in power versus how long a nurses strike would take to resolve the issue, equalling how many patients will suffer as a result.
    You have a fixation on the Conservatives; the state of the nation is as a result of mismanagement by successive governments.  Bearing in mind that since the early 1900`s it`s been between the Tories and Liebour. 
    Both red and blue are responsible for the state of the country.

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