A change in the rules?
Having written many things about the reforms now being forced upon us, I would like to ask as a general discussion about sending people back to work who have been assessed by the NHS and in some cases by an assessment company as LWRAG's and the need to go forward in accessing work.
I am a Health and Safety Officer or was in ALL my jobs of work and attained many skills in Engineering and as a Union representative, so I am well aware of the needs for adaption to get people who are not only long term sick but have become disabled recently and those that may have been disabled from birth or those like me who have due to medical issues can no longer work.
This is the point of the Discussion:
I a person is working and is able bodied, and comes to work still under the influence of a drink the night before or has taken "recreational drugs that are still in the system going to work and is found by a work collegue, manager, Safety Officer or any one on that site that suspects this, then the person is brought into the office and asked if this is correct.
If this is correct they can, depending on the severity, be told to go to the canteen and sober up, can be suspended and sent home with a warning any further instances of this will take the formal route, or if really bad told to go home and return the following day for a hearing where the official route is instant dismissal.
So, where do disabled people come into this since, in order to function they take a cocktail of PRESCRIPTION DRUGS, and then come to work?
Since "adaptions" needed to have been made to allow a disabled person on site, what if this means that the person is driving a crain, or a truck, or that he has people depending on what he does to repair machinery?
Every person I know who is disabled takes some sort of drugs to get them through the day and to function as normally as THEY CAN, but where does this leave the law?
I do not see any mention in the statements made about this, or that people who are not working at the moment because of their disability, what is needed to change the laws that wouild allow them to seek work even with adaptions, since they will still be taking the medication that has put them in a group that cannot work.
The only course of action by the government is to run courses "if the disabled person wishes to" attend to increase the skills that they do not have now. This should be run at colledges and other places of learning where Teachers can also learn a skill of becoming a Champion for children who are still at school and have special needs.
Yes they do need special treatment, so do other adults of working age, BUT not at the cost of looking for work which changes their entitlements to disability or LWRAG benefits to be placed into a "Job Seeking" or environment that failure to attend some classes will result in lowering their benefits and in some cases suspension of their claim until they attend.
We are turning into a scociety where the increase to get Disabled or Long term sick into work is overriding the need to get ABLEBODIED people into work, since as we know we seem to be supporting the cost of benefits, not the cost of benefits taylored to the needs of the Disabled Person.
Even the term DISABLED should no longer be used since it groups people into one group that attaches a stigma of "people milking the system" because they can. The word in the documents now should be Neurodiversant person, where the person is looked at as having a disability, but with the correct training can achieve WHAT THEY WANT, NOT WHAT THEY ARE BEING TOLD TO DO by someone that does not understand the restraints of the neurodiversant person so group everyone as a disabled person.
This is just ignorance, and unless we stand up for what we need and is our right to claim I do not see how restricting people who are 18 to 22 and claim a disability benefit will under this new system be harder to get this benefit.
If I am examined by a Doctor or GP and am registered as Long term sick, disabled, or in a WRAG, where is the law that protects our rights to receive assistance Medically or Financially, showing the supporting evidence that this is the way to go?
We have the Social Care Act, Employment and Support Act, Human Rights Act to name some, even people that come here as Illegal Immigrants seem to have more rights than us.
What if as a starting position we pay everyone the same as the Benefits given to illegal immigrants, and then add 40% to that figure to cover the cost of the fact that I have contributed to the system through National Insurance and they haven't.
If they are illegal, then the ones we see that are been "processed"is only the tip of the Iceberg, so that if every one was issued with an I D card like a driving licence, this would stop some of the thousands we don't see and slip in unnoticed. No card no job. France do it, America do it, so why not us.
Are we, (this government) afraid that they are not capable of stopping the influx of people here illegally?
What do you think? What is your opinions on the new laws that require us to write a green paper to get the opinion of the people who it affects to put a system that could work if implemented correctly but is deemed as cost effective run only.
Comments
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Prescription drugs aren't the same as as the other types and I do think people should be fired if they are seen to be a drug addict.
Furthermore, I don't think people should be punished for taking prescription drugs unless it makes them dangerous to work in that case the government should be given them benefits to live their lives to the fullest.
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How much do you think illegal immigrants get?
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Can we stop with the myth that illegal immigrants get benefits because they don't. They have no access to the welfare system and cannot work.
Once they have been given the right to stay then yeah they get access to the same welfare as everyone else.
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https://www.gov.uk/asylum-support/what-youll-get
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Having worked all my life as a health andc Safety Officer and the person as a Union Represenative for these multinational company's I have hired many people who are "drug dependant" even those that took recreational drugs and got out of control.
Since in wanting to get help and being forced to get help are two different things. I have got many off the "habit and got them to realise what it is doing to them, but more importantly what it does to the family, girl friend/boyfriend, left to pick upn the pieces, should it end badly.
they look again at what is more important to them and realise that they miss life with the loved ones more and need to grow a set, (if you could) and want more out of life than supporting some guy on a push bike to have a quick fix.
That said: I have many disabled people working for me/us, since in the Interview, I do not see a disability, but someone who wants to work and in return even if they did not have the skills I needed would give them every opportunity to be what they want.
Not everyone has the skills and expertise you require, but it is my job to offer some where where you can grow as a person within our company.
Yes, all "drugs taken had to be listed to make sure that, should they have a fit, or asthma attack, or any thing else, that ALL FIRST AIDERS KNEW HOW TO TREAT THEM, and they felt secure to treat them, if there was something that they did not know how to treat is then became two fold, 1. All first aiders would attend an course on that bringing up their skills. 2. The employee felt that the company was appreciating and giving support to them.
A win win situation…
As I said I welcome all comments as this is a discussion where any doubts on your side? ASK here.
I always said "the most stupid question, is a question not asked"
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Can I pose a question…( I don't normally answer with a question.)
Look at your access rights to benefits and how they are changing and look at the "benefits they get" through the illegal immigration route?
Today the British government are giving £10 MILLION pounds to a fund to stop the exidos to here.
A statement made only this morning was that FRANCE will not except and Immigrants deported back to the place that they departed from EVEN IF IT WAS FROM FRANCE?
Does this sound like they will ever stop anyone launching from their side? What are we paying France NOW?
Stop that payment, and put it into a central fund discussed today in the E U. or as the deturant before send people to a holding place in FRANCE where they have immigration rules as well and don't want them.
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That's for people who have already been granted asylum. It's a very different story for those who are still seeking asylum.
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What I want to know is people who are places in a substantial risk cartigory that are proven to have medical evidence to back up self harm or suicide that are currently covered into wrag cartigory they won't be protected under pip?
What happens to these people under mental health
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My point is that this, or less, is the rate the OP is suggesting we are all on.
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Id rather you answered my question
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Id rather you answered my question
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The rules governing LWRAG or others in substantial risk will not change since the duty of Care has not changed.
I welcome the DWP or PIP to assess people for access to financial benefits, because that is what is changing. They still have to prove somewhere along the line that the "assessor" or the Decision Maker has the knowlege to understand the conditions mentioned in the claim form.
My understanding of it is: a financial assessment does not need a medical examination to get the benefit, but would require to be registered on a GMC or NMC register to practice to give an opinion, or a report about the Claimant. This applies to either to a Decision Maker or an Assessor.
Since either report may be used to see what your entitlements are financially and Medically may affect your benefit, eithr report should seperate what is Medical Fact and what is their opinion, and should be signed to say that they have written the report and that it shows their skills and experties, the same as what you would get from a NHS examination.
The only exception is that they cannot write that report into your medical history since they are not qualified to do so, or, issue prescription drugs, as it is not a medical examination.
A disability analyst is not a Medical Qualification, and therefore deal with the financial sides and should contact the NHS or people who treat you for clarity. This then comes under the Hypocratic Oath to do no harm, amoung other things. If they are registered to practice then they can write a report but you can send this to the Medical Board for clarity of the report for your own benefit, where they will look at its content and the writer of the report to see that the quality of the report reflects the NHS reports and treatment.
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Yes but if wrag is no longer assessment in the future and u are classed as been fit for work simply because you dont qualify for pip then they will be getting people to seek more contacted hours or jobs that are self harming or suicidal under current pip criteria for daily living apart from engaging with people there is no section that accesses disability due to metal health
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OBV, The rules governing LWRAG or others in substantial risk will not change since the duty of Care has not changed
The rules for substantial risk were changed in 2015/16.
Those changes are relevant to current claims and any proposals for further reform.
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I don't think punching down on immigrants is a good look, when we ourselves are being punched down on by the government.
I think a better idea is one that has been muted for a long time: Universal Basic Income. Everyone, including children, is paid the same agreed amount per week. It is then up to the individual to choose whether to survive/exist on that amount or to seek paid work to supplement it.
Obviously, an additional payment would be required for those who have substantial health needs.
It would be one payment per person, either basic or basic plus health enhancement.
The amount of bureaucracy that would be eliminated would be enormous and free up civil servants to assist citizens, rather than stymie them at every turn.
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Girl_No1, I don't think punching down on immigrants is a good look, when we ourselves are being punched down on by the government.
I agree and I'm sick of reading such comments on this forum!
None of the TV channels I watch or the newspapers I read spout racism or discrimination. I see it here far too often 😠
We shouldn't expect compassion to come from faceless administrators if we don't feel any for other vulnerable people. Immigrants needing support helps to create jobs just as we on benefits do!
😑
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Agreed Id like to see a lot more discussion on Universal Basic Income and Taxing wealth and a lot less of this immigration nonsense.
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@WhatThe said:
None of the TV channels I watch or the newspapers I read spout racism or discrimination. I see it here far too often 😠
So true.
I definitely see it online, never IRL. I've unfriended/blocked a few people online for their racist / discriminatory bile.
It's very worrying, though.
It's precisely how the likes of Trump (racism) / Andrew Tate (misogyny) get a hold on peoples minds, poisoning them until they become unreachable.
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Which was my point exactly. The assessments we know as of a poor quality (Most) yet they are still used. Yes the rules governing LWAG or others in substantial risk should not change, but how many here have had an assessment that beares no resemblence to the claimants medical history?
All we can do is present the facts as it is. So how do they assess you for a financila benefit if they have not got some sort of background?
The LWRAG has a charter that BOTH sides have to adhere to, so when a suggestion of changing an element of the charter it has to be discussed,"and agreed by BOTH sides" If this was not the case then I would not, apply to PIP but DWP to get the aids that I am entitled to and can't get. Yes TWO different benefits but now they have been linked through Universal Credit, where 6 benefits are rolled into one, and yes if paid seperately because you are entitled to them, why do you get less? It was supposed to be to access one computer where under the National Insurance, they could access you and see if you are claiming other benefits that may not apply when getting U C as a one payment.
Are you on U C? Have you lost money? What has changed to you? nothing, but under DWP andf U C rules you get a lesser amount.
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OBV, Yes the rules governing LWAG or others in substantial risk should not change
But the substantial risk rules were changed in 2015/16 and we failed to notice or understand how they did that! It's vital that we catch up with those reforms in order to challenge these proposals effectively!
I get only the personal allowance despite a successful ESA appeal at Tribunal many years ago. This assault on disabled claimants is not new; people just stopped paying attention if they were not scammed in the first migration programme 2011 to 2014.
I haven't been able to retire because of the additional 7 years I must wait. Women are always the biggest losers in welfare reforms, disabled or not.
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