4 points explained
Comments
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@OverlyAnxious , I get that and thanks for the numeral depiction.
are you implying the benefit cuts are justified? Given that many people’s lives are @ stake by the current proposals ?1 -
I expect financial cuts to affect everyone while the debt is being reduced. That includes disabled people. I believe the welfare system does need to change, but I don't agree with the way they are making the changes.
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I don't know if anyone will agree - and it's a drop in the ocean of the savings needed - but one thing i think that could be scrapped is the Christmas bonus! I have never seen the point of it. Ten quid neither use nor ornament. What are you supposed to do with that - buy yourself a little gift from DWP.
Before i face a tide of "it's ok for you, ten quid is a massive amount if money when i can't afford to boil a kettle"
The bonus isn't from UC. It is on pip which is not a means tested benefit. So there will definitely be an awful lot of recipients of that bonus who could do without it.
And i would argue that, for those of you struggling to make ends meet, 10 quid is more of an insult than a help.
Happy to hear other thoughts on the bonus though!
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The Christmas bonus is unchanged in 51 years - it started in 1974 and has been £10 ever since then - it would have been worth £163 if it had been increased with inflation………
Paid to around 10 million UK residents - it adds up to a not tiny £100 million every year.. its the principle of it that I hate - but I believe that it should be increased to say £50 - something meaningful
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So far its looking like the disabledd are going to be much more affected… "thats not fair why not tax a millionaire".
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Yes I agree.
I was only saying this to someone .yesterday.
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i agree ….
scrap the 4pt rule in favour of ….
1, no xmas bonus
2. pip to become means tested
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The trouble with means testing PIP, independence could be taken away from too many folk that are just over. There are a lot of disabled that can & do work, they may not have the income to afford a car & running costs, the mobility part of PIP enables them to have one through the Motability scheme. To lose that, many would have to give up work or volunteering. On top of that, folk also use it to get powerchairs & scooters that we know can be ridiculously expensive.
I definitely agree with ditching the Xmas bonus as it stands.
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Millionaires are taxed. Anyone earning over £125,000 a year has to pay nearly half of the excess to HMRC. They also have to pay tax on all of their savings interest, without any personal allowance. And when they die, their beneficiaries are subject to 40% inheritance tax. They pay far more tax than we ever will.
I agree they could be taxed more, but it's a difficult balance. If the gov't just massively increased their tax, they'd just move abroad, taking their wealth with them, and we'd lose all of the tax that they are paying, plus products and services in many cases (the richest people tend to be those who own companies we rely on). There's a bigger picture to look at here, and it's not as simple as it first appears. I definitely wouldn't want to be in gov't making these decisions.
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as a caveat to the above i heard on GB news this morning that a millionaire leaves this country every 45 minutes
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I definitely don't agree with means testing pip. I should think that disabled people who do have a well paid career face additional costs not only directly related to their disability in terms of aids and equipment but also due to needing additional time off when they are unwell, attending appts etc that might be unpaid.
I should think they face far greater challenges with promotion - perhaps being unable to take on promotions which they are well qualified for but unable to undertake as a result of their disibility.
And might not be able to remain in a career sufficient years to build a good pension pot.
I would also guess that the exceptions to that (i should think the late Stephen Hawking was well paid all his life) would choose not to claim pip, even when entitled to it.
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Only in theory, in reality there are a lot of loopholes that could be closed.
I believe the Greens are suggesting a 1% tax on over 10 million.1 -
https://taxjustice.uk/blog/wealth-taxes-will-cause-the-rich-to-flee-12-wealth-tax-myths-debunked/
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@OverlyAnxious , thanks for your points. I completely agree
&
These are my Views(just to get it off my chest):
From the outset, I feel, the ethos and language of this Labour government have never been about improving the lives of disabled people. Their approach has been dismissive from day one, and we are already seeing the devastating impact of their senseless proposals. At their core, these policies are designed to cut benefits, not support those in need. This entire thread is evidence of that.
The so called “reforms” are nothing short of a calculated attack on disabled people , perceived to be “lazy” and “taking the Mickey”. The 4-point PIP system, the abolition of the WCA, and the vague promise of “no reassessments” for people with “severe” disabilities, without even defining what “severe” means, are nothing more than a cleverly disguised mechanism to strip away financial support from millions. Labour is making sweeping changes without proper consultation. They closed the consultation on WCA abolishment while keeping it open only for select areas like PIP reform and Access to Work. Why? Because their priority isn’t fairness, it is cost-cutting at the expense of disabled people. The delay in providing the open consultation in an accessible format also feels intentional to me.
To make matters worse, Starmer, Kendall, and the government have enlisted Sir Charlie Mayfield, an ex-John Lewis boss with no medical qualifications, to steer this “get working” initiative. Instead of consulting disabled people or medical professionals, they have put someone from the retail sector in charge of decisions that will directly impact millions of disabled individuals. This perfectly illustrates their senseless, detached approach, viewing disabled people as a workforce/financial problem rather than human beings who need support.
Starmer, Kendall, and Reeves have made it clear through their rhetoric that their vision for welfare is rooted in skepticism and restriction rather than support. Reeves has openly framed benefit claimants as a drain on the economy, Kendall speaks of “fixing a broken system” without acknowledging the real structural barriers disabled people face within the welfare system , and Starmer repeatedly focuses on “getting more people into work” without ensuring they have the support they need. The language they use in the media is designed to frame disabled people as an economic liability rather than individuals with rights and needs.
I am not denying that the government faces economic challenges. But as you say their approach to fixing the economy is deeply flawed. Instead of tackling the real structural issues, such as corporate tax avoidance, failing public services, and the cost-of-living crisis, they have chosen to scapegoat the most vulnerable. This isn’t about reform at all, it is about deliberately dismantling support systems while shifting blame onto disabled people.
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It's worth noting that a lot of the super rich mostly have their money locked away in assets, so they can't get taxed on them. They take out loans with the assets as collateral, so they're basically living off secured debt. It's all very sneaky and I really wish it could be stopped. A 1% tax increase on the super rich could make a huge difference.
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Well said, @Albus_Scope ! 👏👏
On this note, there’s an impactful campaign by Labour MP Richard Burgon making its rounds—well worth signing and sharing:2 -
Cutting social security isnt a difficult choice, its an easy one, a difficult choice would be something broadly unpopular like raising income tax.
Also our debt to GDP ratio is lower than many other countries like France, Italy and USA, Whats happening now is not necessity, its ideological, Labour have an issue with it ideologically. There is also a buffer (although tiny by historical terms) almost double the size of these cuts.
There is many other things they could have done including what Albus suggested.On the original question since no one mentioned it, the 4 point rule does not apply to PIP mobility.
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Well thankfully they are not planning to means test pip!
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Reeve and a minister were caught saying PIP is pocket money for people and she was stuttering in a committee back peddling on the comment. I agree with everything you said really, if you think about the modern DWP, its a bullying system using the threat of poverty or actual poverty to try and force people to apply for jobs, thats the entire idea around the sanction system. The changes in the green paper are essentially the same methodology applied to disabled Of course the extra issue with disabled claimants is they have a much lower chance of employment regardless of effort.
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“Reeve and a minister were caught saying PIP is pocket money for people….”
Yes, I saw the above in the news.it’s a perfect example of their attitude. The fact that such a comparison was made at all is profoundly troubling and indicative of a dismissive attitude toward the real-life challenges faced by disabled individuals.
As you pointed out to OverlyAnxious, disabled people are easy targets for these cuts.I completely agree with everything you’ve said. Things are only going to get worse, and the only way forward is for us to stay united.
Best Wishes
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