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  • bellatango
    bellatango Online Community Member Posts: 130 Empowering

    Timms desperately tries to hide the truth about pension age PIP

     Published: 17 May 2025

    DWP disability minister Stephen Timms is still desperately trying to hide the truth about pension age PIP claims.  But his answers to an MP’s written questions make it clear that pension age PIP claimants will be subject to the four point rule, no matter how hard the DWP tried to hide that fact. 

    From November 2026, Labour proposes that PIP claimants will not be eligible for the daily living component unless they score 4 points or more in at least one activity.

    Whenever challenged about the harshness of this rule, the DWP falls back on the assertion that it will encourage claimants with less severe conditions to seek work – in spite of PIP being available to disabled claimants regardless of their employment status.

    However, even this spurious justification falls apart if the 4 point rule is applied to pension age claimants, who nobody expects to start looking for work if their PIP is taken from them.

    So, up until now, the DWP have repeatedly used a particular form of words to cover the fact that there is no exemption for pension age claimants:  “In keeping with existing policy, people of state pension age are not routinely fully reviewed and will not be affected by these changes.”

    It is the case that pension age PIP claimants are supposed to only be subject to a light touch review every ten years.  But a light touch review is still a review and must apply the existing law.

    And, as we have pointed out, currently more than 10,000 pension age PIP claimants have a planned award review every year and 20,000 more request a change of circumstances review because their needs have increased.

    So, unless they are exempt from the 4 point rule, they risk losing their award if they do not score 4 points or more for any activity.

    To try to get the DWP to admit this truth, on 6 May we asked readers to ask their MPs to put two written questions to the secretary of state for work and pensions.  The questions were:

    “Will existing PIP claimants of pension age who are subject to a planned award review from November 2026 be required to score at least four points in one daily living activity in order to maintain their award?”

    “Will existing PIP claimants of pension age who request a change of circumstances review from November 2026 be required to score at least four points in one daily living activity in order to maintain or increase their award?”

    On 8 May Conservative MP Alicia Kearns kindly asked those questions and Timms replied on 16 May.

    The responses only needed to be a simple “Yes they will” or “No they won’t”.

    Instead, Timms fell back once again on the “not routinely fully reviewed” form of words, but then added:

    “All claimants are required to notify the Department of any change to their circumstance, be that an improvement or deterioration in their needs. Upon notification of a change, a Case Manager will consider what further action might be required to ensure the claimant is receiving the correct level of support.”

    It is a carefully crafted politician’s answer, designed to obscure the truth without telling an outright lie.

    But a case manager considering “what further action might be required to ensure the claimant is receiving the correct level of support” is exactly what happens whenever any PIP claimant requests a change of circumstances review.  Either the case manager will request an assessment of the claimant by the Health Assessment Advisory Service and then make a decision or they will make a decision on the claim using the available evidence, possibly after contacting the claimant and the claimant’s own health professionals.

    The decision will be based on the law as it stands at the time and, because Labour are not exempting pension age PIP claimants from the 4 point rule, that is the law that will be applied.

    So, if a pension age claimant asks for a change of circumstances review with the aim of moving from standard to enhanced PIP then, unless they are assessed as scoring four points or more for one activity, they will lose their daily living award entirely.

    That is the truth that Timms is desperately trying to hide with his politician’s answer.

    A much smaller proportion of pension age claimants are likely to be affected by Labour’s proposed change than working age claimants, but some will still be hit. Both pension age claimants and MPs, who will be required to vote on these proposals, have a right to be told that in plain language.

    When he became disability minister, Timms claimed that he would create a new era of transparency at the DWP, as part of an effort to restore trust in the department.

    But it turns out that being transparent – or trustworthy - is entirely incompatible with being a DWP minister.

    You can read the full answers to the written questions here and here

  • Martinp
    Martinp Online Community Member Posts: 249 Empowering

    Don’t know how these politicians can sleep at night

  • onlymeagain
    onlymeagain Online Community Member Posts: 265 Empowering

    MPs should not be allowed to abstain. They should be voting for their constituents. Why are they being paid for sitting on the fence?

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 1,170 Championing
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • Catherine21
    Catherine21 Online Community Member Posts: 9,796 Championing

    I've done that I wrote drop four point rule and keep wca and we will always vote you in he's labour but yes be great if everyone did email mps telling them what we want

  • luvpink
    luvpink Online Community Member Posts: 4,229 Championing

    I want to post a comment but for some reason I cannot use abbreviations on this forum.

    Is anyone else having this problem?

    Sorry if this sounds irrelevant here but the comment I wish to make with abbreviations is relevant to this thread.

  • Maggie37
    Maggie37 Online Community Member Posts: 79 Empowering

    I’ve filled in my response to green paper.. but perturbed by recent communication from OFFICE OF NATIONAL STATISTICS! Basically telling me I must fill in questionnaire called’Shape Tomorrow’ by 23/5.. it actually reads and asks questions similar to UC forms or PIP/ ADP assessment.. very invasive. ‘Why don’t I work’ ‘Nature of disability ‘ etc….I went online to check validity and reviews said that staff from office harass and badger you if you don’t reply, even turning up at your house? ****!

    I have a 5 year award, enhanced categories, over four points etc. It was asking me… ‘where do I feel pain from my arthritis etc??’ Then ‘how happy I am on a daily basis’!?

    Please please .. can someone tell me whether I must answer this? Is it mandatory. Even if a moderator from Scope forum as it has really distressed me… I do have both physical and mental disability and this has laid me very low indeed? It was just addressed to ‘householder’ at my address but given the nature of the questions made me suspicious/ worried about complying?

  • Holly_Scope
    Holly_Scope Posts: 5,111 Scope Online Community Coordinator
    edited May 2025

    Hi @Maggie37 gosh, that does sound invasive! You don't have to complete this questionnaire, it's not mandatory. If you're worried about being contacted you could leave what you don't feel comfortable answering blank or maybe add a note to state your not comfortable sharing that information.

  • Martinp
    Martinp Online Community Member Posts: 249 Empowering

    why does a certain type of person always get to work in the DWP as government Ministers, do you think there has ever been a good one with a bit of empathy, I can’t think of any.

  • Catherine21
    Catherine21 Online Community Member Posts: 9,796 Championing

    What the hell !!! This is like the gestapo gets worse

  • Catherine21
    Catherine21 Online Community Member Posts: 9,796 Championing

    It happen alot even in care profession people like to have control over the weak and vunerable I'd call them psychopaths kendells face twist and contortion into pure hate her words she's spitting hate she really thought the whole public would be on thier side let's give them 20 lashes but as they are not very intelligent wasn't just doing to us they doing it to everyone in the UK!!! Everyone in this country could live well I think people had enough and are really fighting back no more of this ......... No more how are you feeling are you ok

  • Catherine21
    Catherine21 Online Community Member Posts: 9,796 Championing
  • Martinp
    Martinp Online Community Member Posts: 249 Empowering

    I’m doing ok thank you Catherine, hope you are ok too

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 1,170 Championing
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 1,170 Championing
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • Catherine21
    Catherine21 Online Community Member Posts: 9,796 Championing
  • Catherine21
    Catherine21 Online Community Member Posts: 9,796 Championing
  • jul1aorways
    jul1aorways Online Community Member Posts: 397 Pioneering

    I've just had a phone scam myself. It was a recorded message which is a sure sign. It only lasted a few seconds where a women said words something like "this is about the job you applied for."

    I have had my disabilities for the last 21 years and have not been able to apply for jobs, never mind work, in all that time. That also makes it a scam, if its about something you haven't done.

    Naturally the phone number was a mobile number, scam alert number three.

    I blocked them immediately.

    If you get anything like this I would say DON'T try to contact them. Whether it's phone, text or email. If you get a text or email DON'T click any links!!

    If you still feel worried I should contact @Holly_Scope as she has done with @Maggie37 above.

    Stay safe everyone!! 😊

  • jul1aorways
    jul1aorways Online Community Member Posts: 397 Pioneering

    Mines a Tory MP but I worded it in a way I felt was appropriate to him.

    I told him about our concerns, especially emphasising the fact that we are going to lose all our disability and carers benefits due to the PIP 4 point rule.

    I have also asked why these proposals were not in the consultation and why the government can't wait for the OBRs impact assessment in October.

This discussion has been closed.