Green Paper Related Discussions
Comments
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Conservative shadow work and pensions secretary, Helen Whately, said:
“Labour’s plans dodge the difficult decisions on welfare, leave more people out of work than they put in and will hit some of the nation’s poorest people.
“The sickness benefits bill is spiralling out of control and these rushed reforms will make things worse, not better.
“These plans are cruel, careless and clumsy. And it seems that even some of the people closest to Reeves agree with us, not her.”
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No not at all x
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Wow it's true even the Tories didn't go as far as labour
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What they didn't relize the power of the people making big speeches about cutting everything with great joy I can't wait to see them fall
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Labour MPs are realising that they can no longer take usual Labour voters, like me, for granted. They're getting scared of the voters rather than party whips, as many of them have slim majorities and think they have no chance of winning their seat again if they disappoint their voters. Therefore, they think they have nothing to lose if they defy party whips going forward, as their seats are at stake.
During the last GE, I voted the Greens just for the sake of not voting Keir Starmer's Labour, as I saw the writings on the wall.
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who here is more hopeful now that this will not go ahead ?
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I wish I could be
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I'm not sure what to really but I feel pessimistic.
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LooLooking better than did on 18th March that's for sure union's involved backbenchers yh I'm more hopefull
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I feel more hope now 20% better than I did last week but knowing this conniving government nothing would surprise me if they ignored all protests
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I'm feeling more hopefull.
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Thank
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I think that those of us who can't attend, which is most of us should write to their MP and tell them what we require from them. Don't just leave it to those of us who are capable of going. That will only give the Labour leadership something they want and I don't think we are likely to approve of that! 😁 I'm starting mine in the morning. ✊
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Given that this is the same person who said Labour didn't go far enough with their cuts in the original Green Paper reveal, we should treat anything she says with a pinch of salt.
She's saying this now because she thinks she can win over people in what is becoming a controversial debate, not because the Tories would do any different.
Remember Tories have said they will help Labour vote through the cuts. Unless they abstain or oppose it, we should not believe they mean us any better.I think it's also key that the core of this rebellion in parliament is Labour backbenchers. Labour are not the problem - the people at the top making the decisions are. Many Labour MPs are more on our side than those from Reform or Conservatives are.
I didn't vote Labour and I don't have a Labour MP, but I still feel like there's more chance of this being overturned by the real Labour MPs than if it were the Tories still in charge.
I agree that the PIP four point rule has to go, stat. Then there has to be a fresh consultation on the other decisions around WCA, and ESA and such, putting claimants of those benefits front and centre.
What is reassuring to me is that right now there are people still fighting. Even though so many MSM outlets are not running stories about us anymore, there's still a growing backlash and we have a voice. Ten years ago, we didn't have that voice. Hopefully it will make us harder to victimise in future.4 -
Timms desperately tries to hide the truth about pension age PIP
Published: 17 May 2025
DWP disability minister Stephen Timms is still desperately trying to hide the truth about pension age PIP claims. But his answers to an MP’s written questions make it clear that pension age PIP claimants will be subject to the four point rule, no matter how hard the DWP tried to hide that fact.
From November 2026, Labour proposes that PIP claimants will not be eligible for the daily living component unless they score 4 points or more in at least one activity.
Whenever challenged about the harshness of this rule, the DWP falls back on the assertion that it will encourage claimants with less severe conditions to seek work – in spite of PIP being available to disabled claimants regardless of their employment status.
However, even this spurious justification falls apart if the 4 point rule is applied to pension age claimants, who nobody expects to start looking for work if their PIP is taken from them.
So, up until now, the DWP have repeatedly used a particular form of words to cover the fact that there is no exemption for pension age claimants: “In keeping with existing policy, people of state pension age are not routinely fully reviewed and will not be affected by these changes.”
It is the case that pension age PIP claimants are supposed to only be subject to a light touch review every ten years. But a light touch review is still a review and must apply the existing law.
And, as we have pointed out, currently more than 10,000 pension age PIP claimants have a planned award review every year and 20,000 more request a change of circumstances review because their needs have increased.
So, unless they are exempt from the 4 point rule, they risk losing their award if they do not score 4 points or more for any activity.
To try to get the DWP to admit this truth, on 6 May we asked readers to ask their MPs to put two written questions to the secretary of state for work and pensions. The questions were:
“Will existing PIP claimants of pension age who are subject to a planned award review from November 2026 be required to score at least four points in one daily living activity in order to maintain their award?”
“Will existing PIP claimants of pension age who request a change of circumstances review from November 2026 be required to score at least four points in one daily living activity in order to maintain or increase their award?”
On 8 May Conservative MP Alicia Kearns kindly asked those questions and Timms replied on 16 May.
The responses only needed to be a simple “Yes they will” or “No they won’t”.
Instead, Timms fell back once again on the “not routinely fully reviewed” form of words, but then added:
“All claimants are required to notify the Department of any change to their circumstance, be that an improvement or deterioration in their needs. Upon notification of a change, a Case Manager will consider what further action might be required to ensure the claimant is receiving the correct level of support.”
It is a carefully crafted politician’s answer, designed to obscure the truth without telling an outright lie.
But a case manager considering “what further action might be required to ensure the claimant is receiving the correct level of support” is exactly what happens whenever any PIP claimant requests a change of circumstances review. Either the case manager will request an assessment of the claimant by the Health Assessment Advisory Service and then make a decision or they will make a decision on the claim using the available evidence, possibly after contacting the claimant and the claimant’s own health professionals.
The decision will be based on the law as it stands at the time and, because Labour are not exempting pension age PIP claimants from the 4 point rule, that is the law that will be applied.
So, if a pension age claimant asks for a change of circumstances review with the aim of moving from standard to enhanced PIP then, unless they are assessed as scoring four points or more for one activity, they will lose their daily living award entirely.
That is the truth that Timms is desperately trying to hide with his politician’s answer.
A much smaller proportion of pension age claimants are likely to be affected by Labour’s proposed change than working age claimants, but some will still be hit. Both pension age claimants and MPs, who will be required to vote on these proposals, have a right to be told that in plain language.
When he became disability minister, Timms claimed that he would create a new era of transparency at the DWP, as part of an effort to restore trust in the department.
But it turns out that being transparent – or trustworthy - is entirely incompatible with being a DWP minister.
You can read the full answers to the written questions here and here
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Don’t know how these politicians can sleep at night
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MPs should not be allowed to abstain. They should be voting for their constituents. Why are they being paid for sitting on the fence?
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Spot on!
MPs are elected to represent their constituents and should therefore always vote on matters before parliament. Abstention is a dereliction of their duty, as it prevents constituents' voices from being heard. Abstention is nothing but allow party politics to override constituent interests.
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I bet they sleep well and don't need sleeping pills like many of us do, as they don't care about anything but their jobs and all the perks that come along with. Make no mistake, they're in politics not for anyone but themselves.
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I've done that I wrote drop four point rule and keep wca and we will always vote you in he's labour but yes be great if everyone did email mps telling them what we want
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