An "is this acceptable" question

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Feenixrocks
Feenixrocks Online Community Member Posts: 10 Listener
edited July 10 in Everyday life

Firstly, apologies because all I feel like I do on here is ask awkward questions! Your advice is so valuable though!

So I have a grievance regarding a number of things, some disability related, we are coming up to 4 months since I raised it with no resolution (I have now informed ACAS, so that is in progress.

Today, from someone unrelated from my original issues has said that I should be moved to easier work (I cant easily access the office until the lift is fixed, currently taken 1 year so far), that I should be hiding my disability from the team I manage and "if you were a brain surgeon then lets face it you would not be allowed to do the job would you?"

Ive flagged to HR, whose response is what do you want us to do about it?

Am I bonkers, or is this really not ok? I think I need to see a solicitor :-(

thank you

Comments

  • Holly_Scope
    Holly_Scope Posts: 2,997 Scope Online Community Coordinator

    Hi @Feenixrocks, firstly I'm so glad you've raised this. It's absolutely not ok that these comments have been made to you, nor the accessibility been dealt with appropriately. You've done the right thing in following processes and escalating when needed. I'm certainly no legal expert, but it might be worth seeking some advice from a legal professional. I'm so sorry that you're having to go through this.

  • Catherine21
    Catherine21 Posts: 7,118 Championing

    I'm no expert but that is vile and definitely discrimination they should have been offering reasonable adjustments and everything for you

  • HappyDays62
    HappyDays62 Online Community Member Posts: 132 Empowering

    I agree with @Holly_Scope and @Catherine21, this is absolutely unacceptable and has legal implications. I speak as a previous Head of Department (I'd be putting everything in place for you). Do you have a Union? If so, they will help you take this forward. If not, seek legal advice to deal with institutional discrimination. Shocking behaviour.

    Also, keep a 'paper trail'/record of all conversations and DO NOT discuss this off email, etc.

    Take an advocate to any meetings and Minute them.

  • theme79
    theme79 Scope Member Posts: 33 Empowering
    edited July 10

    totally morally, ethically and I am no legal expert but probably legally completely wrong and rude and offensive.

    Sadly this person has voiced what so many secretly believe - in the past at least they were slightly afraid to voice this but in the current climate people with these ignorant and prejudicial attitudes and behaviours feel emboldened to express them and worse act on them.

  • colejames
    colejames Online Community Member Posts: 44 Empowering

    Hi @Feenixrocks

    It is an appalling thing to happen and your HR department should know what to do but they are also right to ask you how you want it dealt with. Some individuals receiving this level of discrimination might not be confident in being identified as the complainant especially if there were witnesses. HR have the obligation of dealing with the matter but they must also protect you as the victim. From the way that you said it, I am guessing it was not asked in way that I mentioned.

    Do you know if there is a recognised trade union in your work place? Some unions will represent new members who have an issue, others restrict it to workers who were members before they had an issue. Unfortunately there are people who will join a TU when there is an issue but leave once the issue is solved. In a way I hope that there isn't a recognised union as this is an issue which should have been under discussion with information being posted. If there is a recognised trade union then I would suggest updating them on the situation, especially if you have been in contact with ACAS. As you've contacted ACAS, I am wondering if you are considering taking an ET against your employer or just seeking their advice. Either way ACAS are a good place to start.

    Other people are right, unfortunately this kind of behaviour is on the rise. Social Media and the Brexit campaign gave people the belief that they can express their views without any consideration of other people, successive governments scapegoating disabled people has certainly not helped. In fact things seem worse now that they were in 2010.

    I am currently going through the ET process and it is long winded due to the backlog. I am fortunate to have been a uniop rep since I was in my teens and ended up employed as part of a union's national training team. You have started by doing the right things but it is hard to go up against an employer on your own. You should also be proud of yourself as you have stood up for yourself and made a complaint. It is a big step and one that a lot of victims don't do.

    As others have said, you should get proper legal advice. The bullet points below are a suggestion of what you could do next, if you haven't already:

    Get in touch with your local CAB, they generally have an employment advisor who can provide guidance and some can be as good as a solicitor as they will be dealing with the same issue a lot and they may know which solicitors locally may be experienced in dealing with discrimination on the ground of protected characturistics.

    I think you would be able to get a free half-hour or one-hour appointment with a solicitor as many solicitors do provide that service. Most usually advertise it.

    If there is a recognised union in your workplace I would contact them. They may already be raising the issue with the employer but they won't be unless someone lets them know about it. If there isn't a recognised TU then, if you are not anti-trade unions, then I would suggest investigating options of joining a union. Not knowing your workplace, I can't say which would be the correct union but there are unions who represent in a lot of work places including employers who do not recognise TU's. Unions such as Unite and the GMB tend to represent members in the widest kinds of employment.

    Keep a diary of every matter you raise with regard to discrimation or anything which is said to you. Remember that discrimination in not just someone being offensive, there can be other ways in which discrimination can occur. Direct Discrimination is the easiest to prove but there are other ways in which discrimination can occur, some of which may actually be subconsciously done or happen without any consideration of how a decision may affect an individual. The fact that the lift has not been working in over a year could be a form of discrimination as it is preventing you, as an employee, from carrying out their job or interacting with team members. However, if the employer could show that the repairs to the lift have been caused by specialist expertise or shortage of replacement parts then that may mitigate the repairs not happening.

    Update your diary as soon after experiencing discrimination as possible. Note the time and date, who was involved and if there were witnesses, what actually happened and how it made you feel. Anything which you said or other parties said about the incident. Whether any action was taken by your employer after the incident. Sometimes a disabled individual might not be considered able to go on training courses if they are not working with their team or they may be thinking they are looking out for the individual due to the journey or the accomodation etc but everyone has the right to be allowed to make their own decisions in relation to their ability and the employer and the trainers have an obligation to ensure that they are ensuring equal access wherever possible.

    Make sure you keep a paper trail - if you speak to someone about an issue, follow up with an email to them confirming the conversation, any actions or outcomes to be achieved, any timescales and any other individuals who are involved. If you don't think you will get a reply, include the phrase "if I don't hear back from you then I will take that as agreement" or something similar. Basically this put the power more into your hands, because there is no option for them to ignore your email.

    If there is a union then the following should be easier but, if there isn't, then it will still be useful. Try to find out whether there are other employees which are also experiencing discrimination and don't limit it to disabled amployees. Obviously not all disabilites are visible and sometimes there can be a very close call as to whether an individual meets the key descriptors.

    If there are notices posted, either online or on noticeboards which strike you as unfair then take a picture with your phone if you can. Remember that any information saved on an employers property does not belong to you. Be aware of how you are monitored, some employers can be easy going but others can be antiquated.

    Very importantly, make sure you know your employers policies and how they should be managed. Usually employers do not follow their own policies or employment law/ACAS guidelines and this is where they generally lose any tribunal, expecially if you have followed guidance and have done what you need to do when you need to do it.

    If you do go down the ET route it is not quick and the outcome is never certain but there are people who can help you and don't be afraid to reach out and ask for it. My case was lodged last April and I went through the ACAS process in the first month with which my employer did not even engage. At that point you get an referral number from ACAS to enable you to submit an ET. You may not then here much for several months and if you email the tribunal you will be unlikely to receive a reply. This is probably a case of staff shortages and the fact that they prioritise casesby the date they are submitted and their main attention is on current and scheduled cases. I have only just received my initial meeting with the judge and it is not scheduled to be heard until December at the earliest. I am guessing that you are still attending work at the moment. I was off ill when I submited my claim but being off sick was caused by my employer and their failure to follow their own procedures was what allowed me to submit my claim.

    Finances in that situation can be scary but not quite as bad as it could be. If you are off ill then obviously you will progress through your employers sick leave policy. If you are lucky you will get a period of full pay, followed by a period of half pay. If your employer still maintains your employment but does not pay you, then you have a case for claiming breach of contract as they are preventing you earning a living by doing the job for which they have employed you. If you have been on Statutory Sick Pay, then you can apply for ESA and Gov.uk provides details on this. You can actually apply before you lose your SSP entitlement if order to avoid a break of income. If you are not ill, then you may be entitled to Universal Credit as you do not have to be unemployed to receive UC. Many employers do not realise this and use the drop in income as a way to force an employee to resign. It is important not to resign, as if you are still employed (or they have sacked you), the burden of proof is on them in regard of any complaints raised whereas if you resign and try to claim that they forced you to resign, the burden of proof will be on you.

    I hope this is of some use to you but my final advice is to reach out to the CAB, a union or a solicitor and get their advice. They will probably suggest keeping a diary and the other points which I mentioned earlier (unfortunately I could indent or change the font) but having someone you can talk to about it makes the whole process less scary.

    Good luck.

    Neil

  • Feenixrocks
    Feenixrocks Online Community Member Posts: 10 Listener

    thank you all for your replies, it’s really helpful. Most of what has been suggested I am already doing, I’ve been really careful, I just wanted to check my thinking as they always manage to convince you that you are the problem, don’t they?


    Yes, I am planning to go to an ET if it gets that far. I can do this 💪💪


    The part that upsets me the most though - is the government wanting to get more disabled people into work etc- they really need to sort out the employers trying to get disabled people out of work first!! Sure that’s one of the biggest blockers!!?