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can I ring to ask to speak to the decision maker pip reconsideration ?

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  • BenefitsTrainingCo
    BenefitsTrainingCo Community member Posts: 2,621 Pioneering

    Hi @gh49

    Hey don't worry about ranting - the DWP test the composure of us all!

    What a shame the decision was upheld - but as I said before - don't be disheartened! Unfortunately the MR stage really is just an exercise in rubber-stamping, but you now have your appeal rights to go to Tribunal, which was always going to be your best chance of a fair re-hash of the decision.

    As regards tips, the main one is that you MUST request and attend an oral hearing as this will massively increase your chances of success. Other than that, the process is honestly fairly straightforward. In the 'grounds' section of the SSCS1, they are just looking for a summary of the reasons you disagree with the decision i.e. due to [abc] I am unable to/really struggle with [xyz], adding that the medical assessors report is full of inaccuracies which were raised in your MR but not addressed in the response etc etc.

    Whilst I don't mind a rant, keep the Appeal rant-free and also avoid ranting in the hearing - the Tribunal are impartial, and whilst they likely know all too well the issues with the assessments, they'll just want to concentrate on trying to ascertain what points you should score had you been correctly assessed.

    The Citizens Advice have a good guide:-

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/apply-to-tribunal/

    Hope this helps - keep us posted!

    Kind regards,

    Mary

    The Benefits Training Co:

  • gh49
    gh49 Community member Posts: 44 Connected
    edited November 2017
    Thanks Mary,
    funnily enough I have just sent the sscs1 off to start the appeal today. I briefly outlined where I disagreed, that I was complaining separately to ATOS because if the number of inaccuracies which the Dwp just agreed with! I kept it short and to the point but said that I had a lot more to say in a fill submission. I have actually bought a printer so I could print off the form, it doubles up as a photocopier, I look at this as an investment as the bill at the library for all the copies is mounting up. I have put on the form that I will be asking CAB to assist me, however, 2 days after starting to call to make an appointment I am still getting the no-ones available message, the online chat says there's no one available in my area? Etc etc, any ideas on this ? 
    Thanks again
  • BenefitsTrainingCo
    BenefitsTrainingCo Community member Posts: 2,621 Pioneering
    Hi gh49,

    I'm not sure about CABs in other areas of the country but in the West Midlands where I work the CAB will help with advice and preparing you and your submission but they won't actually attend the appeal with you and represent your case. You could contact your Local Authority and ask if it has a Welfare Rights team as they may be able to give you the best practical assistance and support at the hearing. Good luck!

    Lee
    The Benefits Training Co:

  • gh49
    gh49 Community member Posts: 44 Connected
    Oh thank you so much lee I will get on to that on Monday!  Ps. Had my ESA assessment 6 weeks after my PIP one and found out yesterday that I'm in support group, ive requested a copy of the report, mmmm wonder how that differs from the other one which was filled with lies. 
    Thanks again
  • BenefitsTrainingCo
    BenefitsTrainingCo Community member Posts: 2,621 Pioneering
    gh49, As Lee says it really depends on where you live. A lot of CABx don't do actual representation but they can help you get your paperwork ready & write a submission. In some areas the local authority still has a welfare rights team, and in some areas there is even a law centre. Or there may be a disability information and advice service - you can check what's available near you with the Scope helpline.

    Well done on your ESA result. That is great news. Worth getting a copy of the report. Maximus who run those assessments are not perfect but it still depends very much on the assessor you get, and many other factors. Even with the right result for you it would be worth knowing what they said.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:

  • gh49
    gh49 Community member Posts: 44 Connected
    edited November 2017
    Hi all, I received a copy of my ESA medical report yesterday !! OMG you would think I had given the assessor my PIP report and told her to disagree with ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING, it was uncanny and a fair representation of me (placed in support group) I am awaiting date for appeal and have complained to ATOS about their assessor, all papers sent signed for post. I yesterday sent a copy of my ESA report to the PIP department as it 100% contradicts everything the ATOS assessor said massively !! I have asked them to look at this, even though they just agreed with ATOS assessor when looking at MR. DO you think this will help me, has anyone had a decision turned around before appeal but after MR ?? I'm not greedy just feel entitled, I got 6 points care and 4 for the other part, if I got the extra two points for care for standard on that only I would be happy! Looking at the ESA report however I could get more ! 
    Thanks all for reading 
  • BenefitsTrainingCo
    BenefitsTrainingCo Community member Posts: 2,621 Pioneering
    Hi gh49,

    It is possible for the DWP to change a decision in your favour and lapse an appeal if they feel they can change the decision so you've done everything right and even if they don't change it, the ESA report will be excellent evidence for you to refer to at your appeal. Good luck!

    Lee
    The Benefits Training Co:

  • gh49
    gh49 Community member Posts: 44 Connected
    edited November 2017
    Thanks lee I remain hopeful i could not have wished for a better bit of evidence it backs me up about the lies the pip assessor wrote about me, I didn’t expect an esa assessment so soon after PIP hopefully it will be worth the stress I will keep posting when I hear anything, kind regards
  • gh49
    gh49 Community member Posts: 44 Connected
    Hi, just a follow on comment, I rang the Dwp 2 weeks ago to check they were aware I had sent the sscs1 form to start an appeal and also if they had a copy of the other assessors report (my ESA one) contradicting the ATOS assessor. I was told they had both, my case was with a case worker and that they had 28 days from 14 November to either amend my points or confirm I am going to appeal. As the 28days are up on Tuesday next week I rang again yesterday. After a struggle I got through to the appeals department, the lady said my case hadn't been decided yet and was with an appeals writer, then she said she didn't think it had been allocated to anyone yet, I reminded her that the 28days are up soon and she said well 'we do try" to keep to this timeline ! I said so will my case be looked at soon, I just thought I didn't believe her, I said so you are saying you haven't decided if it is going to tribunal yet? She said no, my question is, do they have to have dealt with this and let the tribunal service know within 28 days ? Just seems strange that they haven't looked at this yet, any advice please ? 
  • CockneyRebel
    CockneyRebel Community member Posts: 5,209 Disability Gamechanger
    Have you received acknowledgement from the tribunal that your appeal has been accepted ?
    You should contact the tribunal clerk if you have not received the bundle of evidence within 28 days

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • gh49
    gh49 Community member Posts: 44 Connected
    Hi CockneyRebel , yes I received the acceptance from tribunal service within a few days, ok thank you I will contact them on Wednesday once the post has been.  I hope they are dragging their heels because I have a valid claim, I live in hope. Thanks
  • wildlife
    wildlife Community member Posts: 1,293 Pioneering
    @gh49 Now might be a good time to try again to speak to a case worker (decision maker) to find out if they are still looking at your claim while you are waiting for an Appeal date which is normally a fairly long wait. I know you had a bad experience trying to do this earlier in your claim but if you ask to book a call back and arrange a time that suits you and say who you want to speak to it should happen that way. I don't agree with the advice that the MR or any further reviews after the MR are just a rubber stamp exercise. It is if you sit back and do nothing but my experience of speaking to decision makers was that they can only act on the information given to them by the assessors because they haven't got any medical knowledge whatsoever but they can tell you what is happening with your claim and whether they're still looking at it or just letting you go to Appeal despite them knowing there is evidence that the current decision is wrong. I don't believe they want so many people to go to Appeal as it reflects badly on them and by now they should be wanting to get things right. It's up to you but I did this and got my Mobility increased but not my Daily Living. You've got nothing to lose as you haven't yet got an award. You may not get any more points at this stage or you may only get a small increase but even that would be worth the effort as you then need a smaller increase at Appeal to get the award that's right for you. Whatever you do I hope it all comes good for you in the end. 
  • gh49
    gh49 Community member Posts: 44 Connected
    @wildlife thanks to you too. Honestly I only needed 2 points for care for the minimum award I honestly have not had any extra help from the system till this year and would more than happily take this as I genuinely need it. As the 28days are up on Tuesday do you think I should ring again on Monday? I have been deceived before thinking I was speaking to a case worker/decision maker ! Now they are saying my case is with the appeal writer who decides whether it goes to appeal ? Although I haven't been allocated a new case worker after the MR yet argh. I'm going to ring Monday I'm too soft, am I being too impatient ? Thanks
  • wildlife
    wildlife Community member Posts: 1,293 Pioneering
    @gh49 I can hear the confusion and stress you're going through right now, but a lot of it is because you feel helpless and don't know what's happening. I can only say what happened to me and how it helped. Every case is different. After my MR I rang DWP and asked the adviser who answered my call could they please book a call back from a Decision Maker. This appeared like standard practice from the reaction I got. I was offered the following 48 hours during which the call would be made but I said I wanted more time to prepare questions I needed answers to. It was a Monday and the call was booked for Wed/Thurs. when I also knew I'd be in. I calmed myself and wrote out everything I wanted to say. It could be any Decision Maker (now called case workers) not necessarily the one dealing with your claim. But they all have access to your data online. I found them pleasant and very anxious to get things right. It was explained to me that they have no Medical knowledge so rely entirely on the HP's for decisions on how many points you are entitled to. I was able to discuss my case and an agreement was made to review my case again even though an MR had been done that changed nothing. You are further forward than I was at that point as I hadn't applied for Appeal but they knew I fully intended to if nothing was changed yet again. I was surprised to get a phone call about a week later from yet another DM who couldn't have been nicer. She offered me higher rate mobility said she hoped it would help me and asked if I accepted this as I still had standard rate Daily Living. I agreed to accept the offer for now which allowed me to concentrate on the complaint side of things which is still ongoing. 
            You have nothing to lose by ringing even if it's just to find out exactly what is happening which seems unclear ATM. It's looking promising that the further evidence you've sent is being reviewed and a phone chat may be the push they need to offer you more points. Or it may not but it won't affect your appeal so you still have your options open. Take it slowly and don't do anything you can't cope with. If I'd gone to Appeal I may have got a longer award as I only got PIP for 3 years and I may have got higher rate DL but I couldn't handle the wait or the stress at that point in time. So do whatever is right for you..   
  • gh49
    gh49 Community member Posts: 44 Connected
    @wildlife thank you so much for explaining your journey to me I am going to do as you say and firmly ask for a call back. You have been very helpful, I will update again next week, I’m pleased you got sorted in the end ! 
  • BenefitsTrainingCo
    BenefitsTrainingCo Community member Posts: 2,621 Pioneering
    Hello gh49

    Just a note to say good luck with contacting a case worker, as it has been said in other posts it may be worth writing down the key points you want to tell the case worker. In particular what descriptors apply to you and why, using the medical evidence you have already sent to point out and also back up why you are entitled to the descriptors that you have identified.

    Keep us posted

    Maria


    The Benefits Training Co:

  • gh49
    gh49 Community member Posts: 44 Connected
    Thanks Maria BenefitsTrainingCo. I rang at 8am yesterday (28days for Dwp to respond to tribunal) is today! I asked straight away to be out through to the appeals team, I spoke to a polite lady who said appeal docs received by them on 14 nov and further evidence on 17 nov, which I knew! I mentioned the 28days she said this is a guide and can be shorter or longer! She checked my file, told me who my case worker was and that he would look at everything since the start of application on 4 August. I asked to book a call back, I said I was aware I could do this. She said it is NOT COMMON PRACTICE for case workers to spend time ringing the public but that she would email him so that he would be aware I was chasing things. I said in that case can you ring me back, she said the fact that I’m ringing to chase would not bump me up the queue and that any appeal would mean a wait if 6-9mnths. I said I know that, all I want to know is if it is going to appeal or if they are able to change award. She agreed to ring me back once reply received from case worker. She rang back and said the dept are dealing with cases received on 10 nov and I’m moving up the queue as they are dealt with in date order and said wait till after Xmas!!! Or I could ring next week if I really wanted to, of course I will be ringing and probably Friday cis I just want to know. Anyone had similar experience? 
  • wildlife
    wildlife Community member Posts: 1,293 Pioneering
    @gh49 Sounds like you did really well. I'm sorry about them saying that call backs were not common practice. They must have changed this from when my claim was at MR stage. I honestly didn't know you could ask for a call from a case worker it was offered to me by an advisor. I then took advantage of it as a way of letting them know I was chasing things as you have done. We can't let ourselves be bullied into submission as that is what they want us to do. Let us know how things develop.
  • gh49
    gh49 Community member Posts: 44 Connected
    edited December 2017
    Thank you @wildlife without this site I'm sure I would have buckled under the pressure by now, you and others have been invaluable with help sharing your own experiences. I will check in again with further developments 
  • gh49
    gh49 Community member Posts: 44 Connected
    Hi guys, 
    just a quick question, when I was awarded ESA I found out because a payment went into my account a week before I got written confirmation. I haven’t heard from DWP and will be ringing again on Monday! My question is does payment usually go into account before you get any written confirmation? Thanks 

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