PIP Fraud Investigation - Case Review Team Outcome
Hello everyone,
I posted on here before about a fraud investigation for PIP, just wanted to post and update and gather thoughts or feedback.
I have had a Social Services Care package for 3 years 25 hours care a week.
As previously mentioned I have ADHD, Autism, FND, Anxiety, Chronic Paid, PTSD. It can be quite intermittent, one day semi-mobile to the next day immobile for months.
They have given me the evidence and a decision.
The surveyed me for 4 weeks and witnessed me 10 times walking and using my car, even commenting on my driving ability as they followed me. One if the times they followed me they witnessed a panic attack, but noted this was an act as I was probably aware they were following me (total rubbish). They also noted the use of no wheelchair, which is true as I don't use it 24/7 only during frequent relapses.
They took my bank statements for four years and concluded that I went on holiday two times and that I did this independently with no support and stated "can obviously be independent in another country". They also concluded that I do leisure activities (which is true with support) such as go cinema, out for dinner, and to a pub.
They also said that I was able to attend the office two times (which they mandated as I work for them).
They note I don't look "autistic, anxious or stressed".
They noted I have a lot of transaction on my account? Yes, I do spend my wages?
They said I don't own a wheelchair, despite sending them the NHS Wheelchair Service documents.
They said I have no home mobility aids, despite sending the OT referral and purchase orders.
They sent Police into my flat, who without telling me, recorded me via bodycam footage, and said that I was able to put my shoes and coat on (as they forced me to go with them otherwise they'd arrest me). Said that I could leave the property, again which they forced me to into a police care, or face arrest".
I posted a picture two years ago on Facebook of a Yorkshire Pudding and therefore I can manage my own nutrition and cook independently.
They got my reasonable adjustments at work and stated that I didn't need them that I was able to concentrate and not have sensory issues (how is it ever possible to make that judgement)?
They have received a Neurologist Report, Social Services Report, GP Letter, Autism Service Report, Psychiatrist Report, Occ Therapy Report, ADHD Services Report, NeuroPhysio Report and mentioned none of it and concluded that on the balance my needs are misrepresented.
Therefore I have never been entitled and owe them £36, 000.00 and will be subject to criminal prosecution.
I cannot explain to begin how wildly crazy this is, and the distinct ignorance of evidence, of a fluctuating need and masking behaviours. It's full of assumptions based of a picture or a transaction.
I've requested an MR but the evidence is the evidence I sent already? It literally is crystal clear.
Any thoughts? Ideas?
Comments
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Hi @UDE604. This all sounds incredibly stressful. How are you coping?
I would suggest going to tribunal and go over everything that they have claimed and make notes that explain why they are wrong so you're prepared for their questions. You already seem to have a lot of evidence but is there anything else you could get?
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If im honest, pretty devastated and tearful. I didn't claim PIP for years even though I was entitled, and I claimed when I became really poorly and had additional care costs.
It's heartbreaking to see your disabilities diminished so quickly on the basis of circumstantial evidence-
I have contacted every provider, every service, every team I use for a Subject Access Request and im going to offset every single comment with evidence.
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I'm so sorry that it's making you feel so awful. It's incredibly intrusive and awful to have them say your disabilities aren't as bad as they are. That's great that you're going to gather so much evidence. I really hope that they change their decision.
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This must be so awful for you. Have I read this correctly that you work for DWP and they have investigated you. How on earth has this come about. My heart goes out to you.
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Hi.
Your situation sounds incredibly stressful, and I can see why you feel overwhelmed reading that decision. I would feel the same.
A few important things to keep in mind:
Surveillance doesn’t automatically prove fraud.
Short observations (like being seen walking, driving, or going out) don’t show what you are like the majority of the time. PIP is based on reliability (can you do something safely, repeatedly, to an acceptable standard, and in a reasonable time) not whether you can do it occasionally.
Fluctuating conditions are often misunderstood.
What you’ve described (good days vs long periods of being immobile) is exactly the kind of thing that should be assessed over time. Decision makers very often get this wrong, especially if they focus on isolated snapshots.
Ignoring medical evidence is definitely challengeable.
If they’ve genuinely failed to engage with reports from your neurologist, GP, OT etc., that is something you can challenge. They are supposed to weigh all evidence, not just surveillance.
The amount and fraud allegation raises the stake considerably.
A £36k overpayment + possible prosecution is not something to handle alone. At this point, you should strongly consider getting specialist advice urgently.
You could contact:
Citizens Advice
A welfare rights adviser or solicitor with experience in benefit fraud cases.
Mandatory Reconsideration (MR) needs to be structured.
Rather than resending the same evidence, it usually helps to:
Go point-by-point through their decision.
Explain why each assumption is wrong.
Link it back to the PIP criteria (reliability, frequency, support needed)
Highlight where they’ve ignored medical evidence.
Lastly I would be very careful about what i share publicly.
Given they’ve already used social media posts as “evidence,” it’s worth tightening privacy settings for now.
It might be that the DWP believe there’s a pattern of inconsistency but from what you’ve written, there are also potential red flags in how they’ve interpreted evidence. The key now is responding in a structured, evidence-led way rather than assuming they’ve already decided so nothing can change. I hope everything works out for you and please keep us updated if you feel up to it. Take care
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You'd think the DWP would look after "their own", apparently not.
[edited by moderator - language]
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Hi I hope your coping with this awful situation and looking after your health. I have a friend who is going through a similar situation. Hes absolutely broken with the way hes been treated. Also could lose his job if found guilty of Fraud. The way the evidence has been presented does not take account of fluctuating conditions. The impact on his mental health is just devastating. Hes feeling alone and isolated as unable to function since he got the letter to attend an IUC. Although he attended the meeting they said they intend to prosecute . I dont know how people get through this. As you have said they just look at socail media and footage from surveillance they choose to make people look guilty. Then you have to wait for the decision. How can anyone possibly fight these decisions when there already at a low point. CAB have been useless. People going through this are just not supported enough.
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………and the distinct ignorance of evidence, of a fluctuating need and masking behaviours. It's full of assumptions………the evidence is the evidence I sent already? It literally is crystal clear.
I hope you get some justice. Try not take it personally. Theres good and bad everywhere. Muddle through.
Would it be worth specifically writing to the DWP and asking for a formal WSOR (Written statement of reasons) as to why they believe that you meet the PIP criteria?
Could a Large Language Model, be used, specifically, to highlight (as PracticeWotYouPreach mentioned), the quotations from relevant case law, which highlights how the terms, reliability, repeatedly, within a reasonable timeframe, fluctuating condition, etc, etc, etc, should have been applied?
Does their WSOR suggest that they have misapplied said reasons?
The risk might be when preparing a defence, not being able to access an expert opinion,of someone who understands the complexities of case law, and not knowing if the LLM is right or if its suggestions are relevant or immaterial…
Does anyone have an answer for this?
(I know from my own experience, its very very difficult, actually Ive found it impossible to get help like this, even when Ive offered to pay for it.
Its highly egregious that people with serious illness, (organic causation or otherwise) with symptoms proven by expert medical evidence, can then be treated as if its actually irrelevant by a bunch of DWP employees. Its scoffworthy, yet due to the deliberate built in ambiguities in assessments like the WCA, it causes vast stress, distress and physical pain.)
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Hello @UDE604, I'm so sorry you're going through this, I don't have specific knowledge that I can add to what the others here have said, especially @PracticeWotUPreach.
However, my ears pricked up at the fact you work for them so I will share the following that I've just read this morning (via Liverpool Echo, I don't know how to link it sorry). Quite different situation and may have no bearing/relevance to your situation but as you're employed, it may be, in part, of interest, particularly in their disregard of all of your medical evidence.
An employee at Pilkington Glass was on sick leave with chronic illness/disability and surveillance was carried out in 2019 as they believed he was working for somebody else whilst on sick leave. He was seen accompanying a friend to a farm , carrying a small bag of potatoes and seen holding a hosepipe. He won at Tribunal. His employer appealed in 2023. They lost their Appeal and he's been awarded c £300,000 plus for six years loss of income and it was deemed to be Disability Discrimination as his employer had failed to obtain updated medical evidence before dismissing him.
Just thought I'd put that out there, I think I've recounted it accurately - I don't know if you are in a union, this chap was (he was a union representative himself and had worked for them for decades). I've no doubt this case will be of great interest/? concern to HR depts.
United Legal who represented him said this case sends a clear message that employers cannot rely on assumptions, or surveillance, to override medical evidence when dealing with disabled workers.
Does this apply to DWP too? I don't know. They might need to watch their step. This chap, after so many years of service was made to feel violated and vilified. There is more information in the article I've just tried to summarise.
Take care and wishing you all the very best.
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Awesome, there should be legal recourse, and punitive compensation after being put through hell……even if youre a gov employee with statutory powers, and have made a wrong call, based upon actual factual evidence, (like gross negligence or something), some form of accountability, or just change the assessment process to a fairer process, the surveillance is going to get worse as well, because a billionaire who owns a tech company, will sell Gov, AI and software worth hundreds of millions, and they will have to prove its worth, with results.
(Think Larry Ellison, and Tony Blair. Remember the falsehood used for massive CCTV, 'if youve done wrong youve got nothing to fear')
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Hi @UDE604, Just wanted to emphasise that I'd read your post and the Thread fully and appreciate/understand that the issue is as a PIP claimant [under investigation] as opposed to you as the employee.
However, your comment about 'reasonable adjustments'..... not being needed..... are they, as your employer, complicit - what information have they provided. Something feels very, very off here. (My background was HR/employment law but years ago and I accompanied somebody under caution for a DWP fraud investigation but that was on a personal basis and just guided them/did their paperwork/'defence'). It might be worth having a chat with ACAS. I don't want to take you 'off course' though, just considering it from each angle, so to speak.
I do agree with @PracticeWatUPreach regarding specialist advice being needed.
It may be worth looking at any legal cover you may have via home insurance or bank accounts too.
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I'm sorry to hear this my brother had a interview under caution back in late October 2025 they suspended his Pip in December he as sent all his medical evidence in and pictures. The 2 officers who did his interview made him feel like a fake these people shouldn't be allowed to do the interviews they are not medical trained they followed him 6 times even when he went out for food with his family they asked why he did use his wheelchair he told them because it was to painful for his back because he's waiting to have blockers in his spine because of his Si joints every bump in the chair makes it worse and the msk team have to him he as got to walk because of the pain he told the investigated officers this and because of his spine problems they asked if he was still incontinence and wore pads for it he felt so shown up he said i felt like they were discriminating against my illnesses and they were smirking at him they made him feel so be littled he as good days and very bad days where he doesn't leave his flat. He asked them so am I not aloud to go out now he's in pain all the time. I think what the problem is they only believe the the officers who are doing the interviews and not the people under caution because they are just been made out to be a criminal and not looking at the bigger issue of people been poorly and having medical evidence. Can I ask you how long was it before they got back to you and what I have read you need to take them to a tribunal and fight for your rights because at the end of the day these people go pray on your life are not medical surgeons GP's our mental health they are just decision-makers.
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Hi Danjam what was the outcome following the IUC or are you still waiting. My friend is in the same position. The intrusion of the surveillance has completely effected there mental health. Im looking at the process of the investigating officers to establish wether they followed it correctly. Im sure ill find some descrepancies. Followed to restaurant to prove he can eat solid food . Followed into the gym.Followed walking the dog. Not being funny but if you work and get sime PIP because you have a health condition and use that money to try improve your condition your called a fraudster. Im sure there is better and bigger fraudsters out there they could be targeting. Any advice would be appreciated.
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