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The Benefits Trap

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  • CockneyRebel
    CockneyRebel Community member Posts: 5,209 Disability Gamechanger
    vicky2
    sorry to hear that. Concentrate on the descriptors that best apply to you and where you can score more points. If you can get more supporting evidence that would be very helpful. Letters from GP and people that know you best ie, familly and friends will all help
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • kangabear
    kangabear Community member Posts: 1 Listener
    There are too many lies told by assessors. I had a home assessment after I nearly died from septic shock, I also had other ongoing health issues and had been on indefinate DLA enhanced rate care and mobility for several years. Changing to PIP it was coincidental my home assessment was a couple of weeks after discharge from hospital. I was in so much pain, had friends taking it in turns to stay with me as I could barely even walk to toilet, couldn't cook and was in need of so much help. According to the report I was alone at home, I had someone with me, she opened the door to assessor, made her a drink and let her out as well as helping me to be comfy at various time during the visit. I was laying on the sofa as a bed, in nightwear, dressing gown and wrapped in blankets as I was cold all the time. I had not washed and hair was not brushed as I could not bear to be touched. The assessor said I was casually dressed, sitting up, my appearance was good and I am average build. I weigh over 16 stone and am 5' 5. I cried often, I was in great pain, she said I showed no distress at all. She said I refused a physical examination, she never even mentioned one, it was obvious she couldn't do one. She said I was able to move from sitting to standing after a few attempts .. I never moved from laying down in the bed! The list goes on, all lies, and in her opinion I was capable of walking more than 200 metres although she herself said to me she could see how much pain I was in so wouldn't ask me to stand or walk! I went to standard care and NO mobility and although I complained about the lies I am still awaiting a tribunal, the assessment was in January! The latest news is that I may get a date in October.
  • wildlife
    wildlife Community member Posts: 1,293 Pioneering
    @kangabear I have been through the PIP process with lies written about me. I persevered with a complaint to ATOS which took 5 months for them to reject my challenge. However they may be in for a shock as the Data Protection Law clearly states that companies or organizations cannot record incorrect data about people, the exact wording can be found online. I have a case now open with them and have sent a list of all the false information along with a copy of my assessor's report. I even included the incorrect descriptors as these were chosen based on the false statements. I have also continued my complaint now with ICE as I am determined my assessor will not be allowed to get away with behaviour that would not be tolerated if she was working anywhere else.  
  • Flowerpot
    Flowerpot Community member Posts: 3 Listener
    I to had lies said by my pip assessors and DWP who stated as I do not have a lift in my apartment block and if I have to walk down numerous flights of stairs then I can walk ok, huge mistake as I do have a lift which was discussed with the DWP person on the telephone, needless to say I am taking them to a tribunal.
    I do not get how they can say such blatant lies.
  • sueandben
    sueandben Community member Posts: 1 Listener

    My name is Charlotte, I'm 34 and I live in Carmarthenshire, West Wales. I was a Primary School Teacher before disability made it impossible for me to work, and I would love to be able to go back to teaching one day. I have Fibromyalgia, a spinal injury, osteo-arthritis, severe anxiety and PTSD as well as some other health complaints, which have made life extremely difficult for both me and my family.

    I had to leave work in March 2017. I absolutely loved my job – teaching was what I was born to do and I went back to University as a mature student to achieve my goals, which I did despite my disabilities. However, towards the end of 2016, my conditions worsened and I had to go on long term sick leave. This has had a devastating effect on my mental health, as I have gone from being an award winning career woman, to living in one room of my house and spending most of my time alone.

    I have now left work permanently, which has thrown me into a very poor financial situation. I have debt, no savings, and although my husband works full time, his wages aren't enough to cover our outgoings. I applied for Employment Support Allowance, which was turned down because I have a husband that works full time. It was the same story for Working Tax Credits – my husband earns very slightly over the threshold, when in reality, his wages are just over £300 a week. This doesn't cover rent, bills, debts, fuel, utilities, food, clothes and other necessities. Housing Benefit have offered us £1 a week off our rent, which is laughable. We are right in the middle of the “Benefit Trap”, where we are not entitled to anything more than a pound a week because one of us works full time.

    Young woman - Charlotte - looking at camera

    My husband was advised to either stop working entirely, or work less than 16 hours a week. The government seem to be actively encouraging people to work less, in order to receive more money! It just doesn't make sense. He doesn't want to give up his job because he loves it there, and it is a form of respite as when he is at home, he is a full time carer and parent. He does everything in the house including laundry, cooking, shopping, cleaning, pet care and looking after our son. He also looks after me. He washes me, dresses me and feeds me, even sacrificing his own lunch breaks to bring me food, at the detriment of his health. He has lost a large amount of weight, is now severely underweight and has had to seek medical attention himself because he has no time to eat.

    Occupational Health have offered to raise our toilet and convert our bathroom to a wet room which is much appreciated. I'll be able to shower more independently. They cannot help with anything else, such as personal care or food. They have provided me with a self-propelled wheelchair, which I cannot propel due to pain in my arms and neck. Even if I could use the chair, it does not fit through the doors in my house and I have stairs leading to downstairs and outside. I cannot access my living room, kitchen or garden at all. I need an electric wheelchair but the NHS cannot provide this to me due to funding cuts and I was told to buy my own, which obviously I am not in a position to do. Therefore, I am facing remaining in my bedroom alone on a long term basis.

    I have recently applied for Personal Independence Payments. This process has been harrowing. On application, I felt positive. I knew that as a chronically ill, mentally ill and physically disabled person, I was entitled to maximum PIP benefits. I undertook a mock assessment with the Citizens Advice Bureau and scored 74 points, entitling me to higher benefits for both mobility and independence. When it came to my real assessment, I had to cancel the first one, due to severe panic attacks. The second assessment went ahead in my home and I spent most of it shaking, sobbing and telling my husband that I was sure I was going to die. I physically could not move from my bed as I was in too much pain and the assessor was reassuring, discouraged me from moving and told me that as I was clearly severely distressed, he could come back at another time, which we declined as I just wanted it over.

    Charlotte with her son and husband signing a marriage register

    When I received my PIP report, I was floored. We all were. I had scored 0 points for the first section and 4 points for the second, denying me any benefits at all. The report itself was paragraph after paragraph of blatant lies. The assessor had said that because he didn't see me move during the assessment, he deemed me able to walk, get into the bath, go downstairs and complete all aspects of self-care, despite the fact that he told me not to move because I was visibly in too much pain. He had ignored medical reports, letters from the mental health team and the fact that I was being given a wet room and a wheelchair by Occupational Therapy. He deemed me fit to work. He had sat in my bedroom, witnessing me screaming and crying in terror and then wrote that I was “calm and relaxed throughout the assessment”. It was absolutely shocking and the stress and anger caused me to have a flare up of my illness.

    I had to put together a Mandatory Reconsideration, which addressed every untruth in the report that were so extensive that I wrote 22 pages, not including supporting evidence from my GP and mental health team. I have just been informed that this has also been declined. I have to now appeal again and take the case to a tribunal, meaning that I must attend court to fight for what I am entitled to. This will be extremely difficult for me, not just physically but mentally – it was hard enough having the initial assessment in my home. I haven't left my house for months and I do not know how I will be able to go to court. Meanwhile, we are spiralling further into debt. With just my husband's wages coming in, we are having to start looking into food banks and may face homelessness.

    I find it very hard to accept my illness, as I do not want to be stuck in bed, living a lonely life of pain and boredom. I find it even harder to accept that the government is now making it as hard as possible for me to just exist. Surely this isn't how we should be treating our sick people?


    Tell me about your experience of benefits as a disabled person. 

    Hello Mischeefmanaged i can totaly relate to everything you have said. I suffer terrible chronic pain and daily living is just so hard. I to feel like a prisoner in my own home,alot of my time is spent in my bedroom as it is just to hard and severly painful to even move. I to have FIBROMYALGIA, unless someone who has it themself or knows how this dreadful disease effects our every lifes then they have no idea. I also have IBS, CURVED SPINE (SCOLIOSIS, DEGENERITIVE DISC DISEASE, OSTEO.i had to give up my job as a pre school teacher as it was becoming to difficult to do anything. Then my illness progressed which has made it impossible to live a normal life. I have 3 young children and i was told to claim ESA and get sick notes. One day i was at job centre snd an assesor was helping me with forms. She said i do not know why you have to drag yourself here, when she could see i was just in to much pain. She adviced me to make a claim for PIP. She kindly told me what PIP was and what i had to do. She explained why it was changed from DLA to PIP. She said for example if someone had heart attack and then they made a full recovery and was able to slide back into work and stop DLA, but she said people like that still go on claiming the DLA when they are no longer entitled to it. Thats where PIP came in, they could recall anyone at anytime for a medical and can check with GPS & hospital departments to see if that oerson is still allowed the claim.

    I think i was one of the lucky ones with PIP claim. My husband had to quit his job he loved. He had to care for me, he had to shower me, do all my medication ect plus care for the children, cook, housework everything. my hubby, children lives had to change so badly since i became ill. The lady who done my medical knew all about fibromyalgia and wrote in detail how my life was effected by it ontop of all my other medical conditions, i was awarded  enharnced rate. Its awarded on the grounds of reducing the burden financialy to by equipment and things that i could never of ben able to afford myself.
  • Beccamrsc
    Beccamrsc Community member Posts: 1 Listener
    Hi i have been disabled since i was 8.. i am now 41.. they give me dla for life untill they changed to pip.. i filled in form ect and was give till november this year. For some reason i was called in for a one to one.. went in my wheel chair with hubby who is also my carer... long story short when i had the letter back.. the person who done the interview had also said a load of lies.. i got out of chair with help to sit on chair right next to it coz o was stiff and needed to move.. she said i could walk approx 200 metre?? Where she got that from i dont know... to many probs to list but main ones is RA and im  also been waoting for total hip rebuild since i was 15... they took my money off me.. i am now waoting a tribunal date when i got to attend xx
  • CockneyRebel
    CockneyRebel Community member Posts: 5,209 Disability Gamechanger
    Unfortunately this is all to common a story, those HCP's that  blatantly disregard the obvious truth should be reported to their employers and their professional body. The simple fact that 65% of appeals are successful should be ringing alarm bells somewhere.
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • Fightback4justice
    Fightback4justice Community member Posts: 3 Connected
    As a pip and ESA lawyer and founder of fightback I can tell you a few things that haven't helped. Firstly I cannot understand why you have not been advised to reapply for ESA as you worked so your stamps would carry over into the next year and with different evidence you should have been afforded a paper based assessment for esa. Your husband's income will not matter for the first 365 days and as long as you get into support group it will then continue. Either way the fact that you would at least get something. As for pip this happens commonly in home assessments and we often advise a centre one is best as you are at your worst. You really should appeal this further to court and even if out of time with DWP have a year and a day to do so in court. The fact you sent 22 pages actually hindered you. DWP are often overwhelmed and we recommend no more than 6 pages of written MR and sticking to the points themselves. Your main reason for failing will be lack of medical evidence so you need to look at where this can be improved for an appeal etc. There is a lot of additional advice I could give and we have lawyers who cover your area. Although we are non profit we still offer free advice via phone daily and can advise in our offices. You really should appeal or reapply. 
  • CockneyRebel
    CockneyRebel Community member Posts: 5,209 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2017
    As a pip and ESA lawyer and founder of fightback I can tell you a few things that haven't helped. Firstly I cannot understand why you have not been advised to reapply for ESA as you worked so your stamps would carry over into the next year and with different evidence you should have been afforded a paper based assessment for esa. Your husband's income will not matter for the first 365 days and as long as you get into support group it will then continue. Either way the fact that you would at least get something. As for pip this happens commonly in home assessments and we often advise a centre one is best as you are at your worst. You really should appeal this further to court and even if out of time with DWP have a year and a day to do so in court. The fact you sent 22 pages actually hindered you. DWP are often overwhelmed and we recommend no more than 6 pages of written MR and sticking to the points themselves. Your main reason for failing will be lack of medical evidence so you need to look at where this can be improved for an appeal etc. There is a lot of additional advice I could give and we have lawyers who cover your area. Although we are non profit we still offer free advice via phone daily and can advise in our offices. You really should appeal or reapply. 
    1) Thank you for that. So many people opt for quantity over quality.

    2) can you give your phone number please ?

    Thanks
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • kit
    kit Community member Posts: 24 Connected
    As a pip and ESA lawyer and founder of fightback I can tell you a few things that haven't helped. Firstly I cannot understand why you have not been advised to reapply for ESA as you worked so your stamps would carry over into the next year and with different evidence you should have been afforded a paper based assessment for esa. Your husband's income will not matter for the first 365 days and as long as you get into support group it will then continue. Either way the fact that you would at least get something. As for pip this happens commonly in home assessments and we often advise a centre one is best as you are at your worst. You really should appeal this further to court and even if out of time with DWP have a year and a day to do so in court. The fact you sent 22 pages actually hindered you. DWP are often overwhelmed and we recommend no more than 6 pages of written MR and sticking to the points themselves. Your main reason for failing will be lack of medical evidence so you need to look at where this can be improved for an appeal etc. There is a lot of additional advice I could give and we have lawyers who cover your area. Although we are non profit we still offer free advice via phone daily and can advise in our offices. You really should appeal or reapply. 
    1) Thank you for that. So many people opt for quantity over quality.

    2) can you give your phone number please ?

    Thanks
    Do you have anyone to help in Newcastle please.
  • Mischeefmanaged
    Mischeefmanaged Community member Posts: 5 Connected
    Hi, I just wanted to let everyone know that my MR was turned down. I arranged a tribunal but as a result of my story being in the press, I was offered a second assessment before a tribunal which doesn't happen very often! I went from no points to qualifying for enhanced rate of PIP for both components and my tribunal was cancelled!

    Fighting was very worth it, and contrary to the advice above, the DWP said that my 20+ pages of challenges to their original report was part of the reason mine was re-looked at. 

    A fantastic result! 
  • Mischeefmanaged
    Mischeefmanaged Community member Posts: 5 Connected
    Also again, I am not entitled to contribution based ESA. This is because I worked for under two years as a teacher and had chosen to go back to university before that to do a degree and a PGCE. 
  • Justice
    Justice Community member Posts: 197 Pioneering
    edited December 2017
  • minimouse61
    minimouse61 Community member Posts: 4 Listener
    my son was refused his pip when he had dla for life n made him sit it again for pip n he has disabillty 2 n they lied about every think n we lost on zero points even a lawyer did our forms n say he should win i now apply a mandary but not sure wot else we can add as he not under no docs as he  fear of strangers so there for cant go out and in much pain 2,,i been told my money as i his carer stops on 1st may does any one no if i apply mandary then court if my money will carry on till all sorted as i upset n not no...but i am sure thy need reporting not sure who 2 so i will see my lawyer so he can tell me or sort it out
  • Ehit
    Ehit Community member Posts: 24 Courageous
    Hi @minimouse61
    Your money will stop, if you win you will get it back paid.  :'(:'(

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  • debbiedo49
    debbiedo49 Community member Posts: 2,904 Disability Gamechanger
    Did you exit work via occupational health route?
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