Help with DLA to PIP
Comments
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Tonypiano777 said:Thanks @poppy123456
Its a “mixed bag “ in the kitchen etc, as can open cans etc, but cant peel potatoes (for example) and if using a microwave oven is pat of the descriptor (same applies for timing etc) then why not a washer? Thanks for the link/Guide much appreciated. Ill look at that now.
Others might be able to explain better but I think that this means that since using a washer is essentially 'bending down' it may well be covered by bending down to tie your shoelaces - if you can do one you can do the other. Brushing your teeth isn't included but using a can opener/chopping/peeling is.
If I can find a link to the other message I'll post it for you.... -
Thanks @Thespiceman for the post and advice.
The form came this morning (not opened it yet though) and i did think about what you was saying about filling in the form, and that is, filling notes in etc, before actually writing on the FORM itself. I will have a look through it, then problaby contact someone you mentioned, or my welfare rights team (who helped me before on an ESA form and got me in to the support group - rendering a face-to-face unnecessary).
I’ll work on other options too, as i slowly work my way through the form, and the descriptors.
@cristobal
Like i mentioned above, mobility (not getting out etc) is my main problem, not so much “peeling potatoes” (i could do it if i was shown perhaps), so there are parts of the form that are difficult to answer, but the links above do help https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.gov.uk/pip&ved=2ahUKEwjxk6j56qDhAhXwXhUIHX-dA2IQFjAHegQICBAD&usg=AOvVaw2gSEm8XUsfgvPsjmFZoUFD
and: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities
thanks to @poppy123456 and @Aran respectavly
Thanks all for the help. I’ll open the form now to see when they need it back (not received my doctors letter yet though. - nearly 2 weeks after asking him for one.).
Tony ? -
Yes, now it's mentioned they can associate things like bending down to do the washing with some of the descriptors. It's all part of the " small talk" during the assessment.@Tonypiano777 You won't score any points for preparing a meal for not being able to cook because you haven't been shown.For evidence, do you have anything else other than the letter from your GP? This isn't the best evidence to send because a GP will very rarely know how your conditions affect you against the PIP descriptors.I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
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poppy123456 said:For evidence, do you have anything else other than the letter from your GP? This isn't the best evidence to send because a GP will very rarely know how your conditions affect you against the PIP descriptors.
Its a difficult form to fill in (just opened it an got till 19th April to return it) but I’ll do my best and get support to fill it in. I live alone, but other other members of my family aren’t really “in to these” forms, and i couldn’t expect them to fill it in for me, as they wouldn’t understand like, say, a professional (welfare rights/social worker etc). Ive had social workers/therapist etc, but only for my brother and father, but they did help me when i was getting my brother in to the nursing home as i had a sort of “nervous breakdown” (i collapsed and was taken to hospital) but, on paper, I’ve just got my doctor it has to be said.
I’m just wondering if the first part of the form that seems to involve descriptives like “peeling potatoes, preparing food “bending down” etc are LINKED to things that involve “mobility, getting around, going in to cars etc That are later in the form ??? Is: “HOW MY HEALTH CONDITION OR DISABILTY” assessed as a whole? Or could you still score as many points for not being able to get out/communicating with others etc, IF you dont score any points on “preparing food” for example? (Ive seen a few youtube clips were people have had these assessments, and yes, they do trick you Ive heard !)
And one very young lady who sat almost silent throughout the assement, failed the test, because she looked too relaxed, when she said on her form for she’s panicky in public etc. We’re i actual fa t she was TERRIFIED to speak for fear of “putting her foot in it”.
Thanks everyone.
Tony ? -
You can ring DWP to ask for an extra 14 days to return the form, if you don't have enough of time.You'll be assessed on the individual descriptors. Even though your GP has known you for a very long time, a letter from him/her still isn't the best evidence you can send. In fact when i recently filled out a review form for PIP one of the things on the "we don't want to see list" was indeed a letter from your GP.One of the worst things you can do is to look for negative stories on the internet because this will make things even worse. There's lots of people who successfully claim PIP first time without any problems at all but we don't hear their stories. If someone's had a decision they're happy with they have no questions to ask so we don't hear their story.Activity 9 ..engaging with other face to face. If you need support/assistance or prompting from another person to be able to engage with others then it maybe possible to score either 2 or 4 points here. This is for the daily living part and you need at least 8 points for an award of standard rate. There's 9 other daily living activities to look at.The following and planning a journey activity is for the mobility part, is not for those with a physical condition. For mental health it's very difficult to score points here unless you suffer with overwhelming psychological distress (OPD.The moving around activity is for those that have a physical condition, if you don't have any problems standing and moving then you won't score any points for this activity.
I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help. -
Hello @Tonypiano777 Thank you for reply. Understand the situation you are in. Having been there so many times.
To give you some reassurance this is you .. I have been one of those members as my friend @poppy123456. Has described to you in her post.
I think what is important to concentrate on you . Your own needs not worry about others.
Anxiety I know too well. What happens if you have the ear worm syndrome in your mind the constant thoughts.
This in turn becomes unbearable a reminder. This then effects stomach and the rest of the body. A constant source of anxiety.
Cannot eat or sleep.
Reach for things that help you can make you worse. Alcohol and caffeine . Both effects anxiety .
May I please say even after all these years every time a form comes through. The letter box brown envelope syndrome still get the jitters and anxiety.
Even so always contact my GP as well. For reassurance, talk it over . How your feeling. Most Doctors should and are aware of the benefit situation.
As for the assessment and after speaking to GP that helps as well. One other thing forgot to mention . Went down recently had given me a card the Doctor. From services provided by CAB for those with mental health issues and other disabilities.
Apparently my area has a special helpline with CAB for those experiencing difficulties. Some thing to look at plus any sign posting might help.
As long you are there patient they need to know how you are. Mentally and physically.
Please can I add what ever direction you decide to take looking at support or guidance. We as a community are here to be supportive, answer any questions.
I wish to stress that yes I have had positive outcomes and it is those I continue to focus on.
All I can add please have a look around our website on PIP for anything additional information.
May I also say look at the CAB website very informative on form filing in and PIP.
Please take care.
Always here anytime . For any support. Ready to listen.
Remember small steps. You be OK.
Take care.
Community Champion
SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
Recipes -
Thank you @thespiceman for the helpful and reassuring post. Much appreciated. Yes, my sleep as been pretty bad this past 3 weeks (3-4 hours), forcing me to Catch up in the eves (dont like doing it but I try to get as much quality sleep as possible, or these forms, for example, become (literally) impossible to read - let alone fill in. I’m always best “post medication” for about 3 hours then i get anxious again and have to rest from activities.
I can be in the garden at 2 pm, pegging washing out, but at 5 PM for example, i can’t even get out the chair. Its odd really, as people who come to see me (family and friends) always come when Ive taken my medication (feeling fine, that is, for all of them) but after they’ve gone, i have to sit down again and it seems I’m always “ready for my next medication dose” to make me feel ok. I sometimes use a stairlift when going upstairs as nervous fatigue (thats a lot worse than one thinks - as it renders me pretty much useless for doing ANYTHING until medication)
If someone comes when I’ve not taken my medication, I’m extremely panicky, and sometimes dont open the door. Thanks for all the options youve give me @thespiceman
Thanks for the details there @poppy123456
I’ve not actually heard of OPD, (overwhelming psychological distress ) but my DR (on my last letter years ago) diagnosed me of a similar illness. As for planning a journey.... well, i don’t/cant get out at all.
@Tonypiano777 -
Hello @Tonypiano777 Thanks very much for reply. Much appreciated.
I am on meds myself have to admit nothing wrong in having bad days.
Please if it helps you not alone with medication. Understanding you own mind and how you work. Not every body does. Only you know that.
I think what is important also must remember I am not a medical expert but have been on meds and lots of them a long time.
To reassure and give you some comfort. It is how you deal with everything.
One thing I have learnt about any mental illness is never one day is the same. It is how you deal with that.
Using coping methods and strategies to get ahead and to use them to deal with every day tasks. Little things I used these from various sources.
Usually mental health charities. There support staff.
Built up a knowledge a learning experience. Recognised how I am today.
So today tired but had a simple stand by snack to boost energy. It is how to adapt your day to cope with anything.
Something simple PNB Sandwich, bowl of Cornflakes or Fruit. Apples, Pears. On standby. All helps.
Also one suggestion I use is have a diary. You know when you not good or some days when your good. Then put in it the tasks you can do. Make a date for it. Then the mind is focused and if not do it another day.
Including sleep plan for it. I wind down around nine all electricals off. Put restful music on. No TV . Just some guidance. Had severe sleep issues around addiction.
Much documented on here. Need to plan my routine. Takes a lot of practice does help though.
Tiredness, anxiety, stress all part of every day. Combined with medication drags you down.
I know have been there and still am. Of course no one is perfect. I am not and have down stress filled anxious days. Like every one else with similar.
Try not too get stressed or anxious if I can not do this does it matter today. Do it another day. When I am good. Look at the diary.
Make set days to do jobs small achievements you can do. Be proud of yourself . Be kind. Give yourself rewards.
I live on my own so me personally has to be an evening meal.
Make it simple, easy to do.
Happy to share .
Always here anytime.
Take care.
Community Champion
SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
Recipes -
The following might help with form filling
1 - Identify those activities you have any kind of issue with.
2 - Identify whether the issue is that you can’t do the activity at all; can’t do it reliably, can’t do it repeatedly; can’t do it safely or in a reasonable time. If any one of these apply to an activity then you can’t do it at all and it’s okay to say so. However, as well as ticking the box saying you either can’t do it all need help or aids, remember to say which one(s) of the above apply.
3 - Have a copy of the PIP points scoring system in front of you. The questions in the form don’t match the points scoring so it’s as well to be aware of this.
4 - For every activity you think you score points you need to think of 2 or 3 recent examples of incidents when you tried to do that activity. Describe in detail the what, when, where, who witnessed, what happened next etc. Don’t skimp on detail. It’s often better to type it up in Word first rather than write in the form. If it won’t fit then add extra sheets, remembering to put your name, NINO and the question to which the answer relates on each sheet. Alternatively, reduce the font and cut and paste the Word answer into the form. Note that doing point 4 correctly is far more important than supporting medical evidence in most cases.
5 - Use the extra information section to describe your conditions in detail; the specifics of the symptoms and especially how they interact.
Also, if applicable, use it to spell out that you want an ongoing award and explain why e.g. your condition is degenerative, you’ve done all the adapting you’re going to do etc. If you don’t specifically ask for an ongoing award you will almost always get a short one.
6 - Assuming your diagnoses are not in question and ditto the prognosis then ask yourself what gap in your evidence does medical evidence fill in terms of points scoring? If you can’t answer that then consider not sending it in. 10 reports all saying the same thing are no better than 1. Volume of evidence, especially medical evidence, doesn’t win you PIP and medical evidence is also not as helpful as your own anecdotes unless you are someone who lacks insight into their own condition e.g. someone with a learning disability or certain mental health conditions. Clarity and focus of evidence wins you PIP.
7 - Whilst PIP ask for the form back in 4 weeks they will grant a 2 week extension without question if you ask. However, there is no actual deadline for returning the form in the legislation so that deadline can be extended if reasonable. What could be more reasonable than having a medical condition which slows you down? Ask for an extension as a reasonable adjustment under EA 10 if applicable.
8 - By all means get an advice service to do this but if they don’t do most of the above then you’re better off doing it yourself. Welfare rights advisers do not have some magic form of words they use and their knowledge of the law, guidance or case law only occasionally comes into play at the firm filling stage. No-one especially likes form filling but unless your impairment creates specific difficulties with form filling there’s no reason you can’t do it yourself. It’s all about the anecdotal evidence.
1 - Identify those activities you have any kind of issue with.
2 - Identify whether the issue is that you can’t do the activity at all; can’t do it reliably, can’t do it repeatedly; can’t do it safely or in a reasonable time. If any one of these apply to an activity then you can’t do it at all and it’s okay to say so. However, as well as ticking the box saying you either can’t do it all need help or aids, remember to say which one(s) of the above apply.
3 - Have a copy of the PIP points scoring system in front of you. The questions in the form don’t match the points scoring so it’s as well to be aware of this.
4 - For every activity you think you score points you need to think of 2 or 3 recent examples of incidents when you tried to do that activity. Describe in detail the what, when, where, who witnessed, what happened next etc. Don’t skimp on detail. It’s often better to type it up in Word first rather than write in the form. If it won’t fit then add extra sheets, remembering to put your name, NINO and the question to which the answer relates on each sheet. Alternatively, reduce the font and cut and paste the Word answer into the form. Note that doing point 4 correctly is far more important than supporting medical evidence in most cases.
5 - Use the extra information section to describe your conditions in detail; the specifics of the symptoms and especially how they interact.
Also, if applicable, use it to spell out that you want an ongoing award and explain why e.g. your condition is degenerative, you’ve done all the adapting you’re going to do etc. If you don’t specifically ask for an ongoing award you will almost always get a short one.
6 - Assuming your diagnoses are not in question and ditto the prognosis then ask yourself what gap in your evidence does medical evidence fill in terms of points scoring? If you can’t answer that then consider not sending it in. 10 reports all saying the same thing are no better than 1. Volume of evidence, especially medical evidence, doesn’t win you PIP and medical evidence is also not as helpful as your own anecdotes unless you are someone who lacks insight into their own condition e.g. someone with a learning disability or certain mental health conditions. Clarity and focus of evidence wins you PIP.
7 - Whilst PIP ask for the form back in 4 weeks they will grant a 2 week extension without question if you ask. However, there is no actual deadline for returning the form in the legislation so that deadline can be extended if reasonable. What could be more reasonable than having a medical condition which slows you down? Ask for an extension as a reasonable adjustment under EA 10 if applicable.
8 - By all means get an advice service to do this but if they don’t do most of the above then you’re better off doing it yourself. Welfare rights advisers do not have some magic form of words they use and their knowledge of the law, guidance or case law only occasionally comes into play at the firm filling stage. No-one especially likes form filling but unless your impairment creates specific difficulties with form filling there’s no reason you can’t do it yourself. It’s all about the anecdotal evidence.
Be all you can be, make every day count. Namaste -
Thanks @thespiceman
Much appreciated post. And an heat felt one too.
Actullay I also keep a diary now for myself (as i did for my brother, when he was incontinent, when he was dry, good bad days etc, seizure(s) and so forth). So now my brothers’ in a Nursing home, I keep a diary/log for myself, too. (also thet times i take my medication, and it really does vary as my bedtimes do too).
And yes, about electricals’ and the sorts; (TV/PC/Phones etc) - been guilty of all this, as I THINK I’ can relax in bed with phone prior to sleeping - but, has the opposite effect. So stopped doing that - now.
I too, have energy bars (at the ready), but can be quite costly (protein bars). its true what is said about “you are what you eat” so i try for a balanced diet each day. High protein is very good.
Indeed, reward oneself - most definitely!
Thanks.
@Tonypiano777 ?
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Thanks @CockneyRebel.
Good info there and VERY useful for pre-form filling, and worth printing out for reference too.
Thanks you
@Tonypiano777 ? -
Thanks for the reply @ilovecats. Will take these points in to consideration ?Do the assessors etc only work’ on the benefit your claiming? (PIP in this instance), or could they notionally think you SHOULDNT have been getting previous benefits in the first place (DLA) and could they take issue with it?
Regarding caring for my family and myself, this doesn’t (didn’t) involve going out, as thats my main problem, agoraphobia and chronic anxiety.
As I understand you @ilovecats, its perhaps best to put my needs in simple terms and not “over complicate” things, adding random things?.
Thank you all.
Not started the form yet as waiting for help.
@Tonypiano777 -
Tonypiano777 said:Thanks for the reply @ilovecats. Will take these points in to consideration ?Do the assessors etc only work’ on the benefit your claiming? (PIP in this instance), or could they notionally think you SHOULDNT have been getting previous benefits in the first place (DLA) and could they take issue with it?
Regarding caring for my family and myself, this doesn’t (didn’t) involve going out, as thats my main problem, agoraphobia and chronic anxiety.
As I understand you @ilovecats, its perhaps best to put my needs in simple terms and not “over complicate” things, adding random things?.
Thank you all.
Not started the form yet as waiting for help.
@Tonypiano777
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twonker said: It is highly doubtful if the previous DLA award details would be available to the assessor. However I am informed that the previous PIP documents will be available and I suppose it could colour the thoughts of the assessor if they think - why on earth was he/she given those points last time around.Thanks @twonker, ill keep that in mind. Much appreciated.
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When changing from DLA to PIP you can ask for your DLA details and award to be taken into consideration
Be all you can be, make every day count. Namaste -
Thanks all for your replies. Im
looking at. The form now and preparing to fill it in (very low sleep count makes this difficult to concentrate though).
@ilovecats : what is 11E? , not sure you’re referring to the questions on the form as it’s just 11, 11a, 11b ,11c
re: budgeting. Well my brother who’s now in a nursing home needs what’s called "top up fees” £160 per month and it was supposed to be between my other 3 family members (2 sisters one brother) at £40 a piece, but they no longer pay this now and just pay bits. So I’m paying about £120 per month (should be £40) and I’ll struggle bad without this extra benefit. I’ll be in debt I’ve worked out. So although I’m no longer physicals caring for my brother I still manage his finances etc. Clothing and so forth.
@CockneyRebel.
I will I’ll ask my DLA to be taken in to consideration. I have somewhere a copy my last form I filled in. (Though not sure as could have been ESA) I’ll search for it. When you say “ask” do you mean mention it on the fform?
Thanks. -
When you made the initial phone call, you should have been asked if you wanted your DLA taken into consideration. Although, the criteria are different and it may not help you
Be all you can be, make every day count. Namaste -
CockneyRebel said:When you made the initial phone call, you should have been asked if you wanted your DLA taken into consideration. Although, the criteria are different and it may not help you
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TBH it is not unheard of for the agency that takes the initial calls to start off a PIP claim to ignore various parts of the PIP1 form that they complete on your behalf.
They are supposed to ask about DLA and just as important if you have any issues that would put you in the vulnerable claimant category.
Pages 17 and 18 refer. Have a look at all of the questions that they should have asked
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/713113/pip1-claim-form.pdf
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Thanks Twokker and all.
Had a few rough days and little sleep, so not been too good since the weekend. And huge panic attack on Saturday. Just came on me.
I had a decent sleep last night, and in a position to start the form filling today. First off, I’m wondering about “health condition and year started: my agoraphobia/anxiety was mainly in the 1990’s, but got progressively worse as time went on, then my claustrophobia/fatigue came after this. So I’m a bit stuck as to what date(s) i can put here, as its been a developing problem (from my road accident actually in 1982 which put me in an induced coma)
so if i was filling it in right now I would probably put
Agrophobiia/anxiety: 1993
claustrophobia c1997
However, my condition(s) are a direct result of my road accident which was 1982, so would i be best putting this date? The date that “triggered off” my agrophobia/anxiety? Its all a bit awkward as cant remember the dates or years even.
I dont want to start the form on a negative tone, always wondering what (dates) my illness affected my ability to carry out activities.
My first official Drs letter confirming i have (i quote:) “My patient suffers Severe lifelong chronic anxiety and acrophobia, As a result, he is only occasionally able to leave the house” (end quote)
well, this was dated July 2012, even though ive had it many years before. (This was my new doctor as it where) my previous doctor of many ears acknowledged this but there was nothing in writing.
ive received an updated letter from my doctor yesterday with similar wording to the above (same doctor) but with the added Claustrophobia, and problems when bathing (anxiety/panic attack) etc.
Thanks.
Brightness
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