PIP Refused - Unusual Circumstances - Page 3 — Scope | Disability forum
Please read our updated community house rules and community guidelines.

PIP Refused - Unusual Circumstances

13

Comments

  • OverlyAnxious
    OverlyAnxious Community member Posts: 2,587 Disability Gamechanger
    A fit note is only used for ESA or universal credit purposes for those that have a limited capability for work. Although because it's 2 years old, it wouldn't be accepted for that either. Even then it's not classed as evidence.
    Fair enough, it was used for the ESA claim 3 years ago, I don't have anything more recent though.

    I have just requested access to my medical 'coded' record online (I can only see a summary currently with basically nothing in it!) but I'm not sure what's actually in the coded one or if there'll be anything of use.  Bearing in mind I've never been hospitalized or sectioned, what sort of thing would count as evidence of mental issues from a GP?
  • pcoventry
    pcoventry Community member Posts: 149 Pioneering
    edited July 2019
    The last time I went out the Police were called - I got so stressed by there being so many people around me I got agressive and threatened to punch the shop assistant out if they didn't stop asking me stupid questions about warranty.

    And yet the DA said I had no problem interfacing with others and gave me 0 points

    All witnessed by my support person both then and now.

    I think they go back - put a blindfold on and just play pin the tail.. 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,365 Disability Gamechanger
    If you've had appointments in the past the Consultant usually writes to the GP, this maybe of use as evidence. Other than that, i'm not really sure what else you can use. All you can do is give those real life examples for each descriptor that applies to you.

    There's a very high chance the MR decision won't change and Tribunal is your next step. As advised appearing in person gives you a 74% chance of success. Success for paper based decisions drop drastically to between 5-8%.


    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Adrian_Scope
    Adrian_Scope Posts: 10,836 Scope online community team
    Hello @OverlyAnxious. If you can identify the descriptors you think you meet, you could list them here for us and how/why you think you meet them and we could discuss it with you which may help?

    It's not ideal but I know how hard it can be when you can't get out for face to face support and communities like this are your only resource for help. 
    Community Manager
    Scope
  • OverlyAnxious
    OverlyAnxious Community member Posts: 2,587 Disability Gamechanger
    Thanks all, I have posted the MR now so it's another waiting game at the minute.  I've read it can take 10 weeks though so I'm trying not to dwell on it as there's nothing I can do for now. :smile:
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,365 Disability Gamechanger
    edited July 2019
    The 10 weeks is just a guide but there's really no timescales. Most decisions do remain the same. Good luck and do let us know the outcome.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • OverlyAnxious
    OverlyAnxious Community member Posts: 2,587 Disability Gamechanger
    The 10 weeks is just a guide but there's really no timescales. Most decisions do remain the same. Good luck and do let us know the outcome.
    Hi Poppy,

    Should I get a confirmation text when they've received the MR letter?  It's been a week since I posted it so I'm starting to wonder if I used the wrong address, with the 4 weeks deadline for MR I don't want to leave it too long if I have to post another copy!

    I had a text for the original form and the assessment form within about 3 or 4 days iirc.
  • buzzer
    buzzer Community member Posts: 106 Pioneering
    edited July 2019
    Should I get a confirmation text when they've received the MR letter?  It's been a week since I posted it so I'm starting to wonder if I used the wrong address, with the 4 weeks deadline for MR I don't want to leave it too long if I have to post another copy!

    I had a text for the original form and the assessment form within about 3 or 4 days iirc.
    Give the PIP helpline a call 0800 121 4433 to confirm they can see the MR on their screen 

    Try & be kind to one another even if we may have different views. 

  • OverlyAnxious
    OverlyAnxious Community member Posts: 2,587 Disability Gamechanger
    buzzer said:
    Should I get a confirmation text when they've received the MR letter?  It's been a week since I posted it so I'm starting to wonder if I used the wrong address, with the 4 weeks deadline for MR I don't want to leave it too long if I have to post another copy!

    I had a text for the original form and the assessment form within about 3 or 4 days iirc.
    Give the PIP helpline a call 0800 121 4433 to confirm they can see the MR on their screen 
    That's a last resort tbh.  I find phones extremely difficult and was ill for days after having to phone for the assessment report, I really don't want to have to go through that again.  I don't know why they can't do things online, and they add insult to injury by writing 'it's easier to phone' on their paper forms for disability benefits...for a lot of us it isn't!!  It's not even like they have enough staff to answer the phones within a reasonable time.  It would much quicker, easier (and cheaper for them!) if we could just access an online system to check the claim progress/status and just click a link to have the assessment reports posted for example.  Even for personal/specific things, emails are far easier to deal with than calls as they can be stacked up and dealt with in order at any time, unlike phone calls that have to be dealt with immediately leading to overly busy times and waits of over half an hour.

    While we're on the subject, I also didn't receive half of the travel costs that I should have done because my F2F assessment was cancelled when I got there the first time.  I had to phone another number after the PIP one to try and get the extra money (provider instead of DWP) and couldn't verbally explain to the call handler what the problem was.  She didn't really understand me but typed an email to someone else whilst I was on the phone...it would have been so much easier for me to type the email and I could even attach a photocopy of the travel costs form I'd posted as proof.  This was 2 weeks ago and I've never heard back from them or received the extra money into the account so assume they aren't going to rectify it.  I could really do with it for groceries this week but just can't face another phone call so will just have to go without it now.  
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,365 Disability Gamechanger
    They don't always acknowledge receipt of the MR request letters. I've heard some receive then and some don't. It can take 10 days for them to be uploaded onto the computer and sometimes longer for them to send a text saying it's been received, if they even send one at all.

    There's no timescales for any decision.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • worried33
    worried33 Community member Posts: 492 Pioneering
    edited July 2019
    Technically PIP isnt about diagnosis, but diagnosis seems to be used as a gateway to awarding descriptors, on my f2f, 90% of the questioning was about diagnosis, I also have a friend who's conditions didnt change between two assessments, but on the first assessment they had no diagnosis, on the second assessment they did have a diagnosis, the form was filled in the same on both assessments, and the evidence was the same on both, the only thing that changed was the diagnosis, on the first assessment zero points on everything, on the second, got the points for what she wanted.

    When I won my last DLA tribunal some years back, the DWP's basis was "lack of clinicial" evidence, the tribunal kept querying it again and again, and all they kept getting back was "lack of clinical evidence", when I asked the chair what that meant he told me they were not happy I had no diagnosis and were trying to use that as a means to deny the benefit, but he disagreed with them as the law states diagnosis should not be relevant to an award.

    You can get an award without diagnosis, just its very tough due to how the DWP operate with their reliance on it.
  • Waylay
    Waylay Community member, Scope Member Posts: 973 Pioneering
    edited July 2019
    0 points at review assessment and MR for mental + physical disabilities, even with evidence including letters from counsellor and NHS MH service worker. No extra evidence at tribunal, but wrote in depth about how both types of disability affect me. They questioned me for ~30 mins. 19 points, standard/standard.
  • OverlyAnxious
    OverlyAnxious Community member Posts: 2,587 Disability Gamechanger
    It does seem to depend heavily on who you get for the decision I think.  I don't know how much of it is actually law and how much is just guidelines.  This is where the issue comes in with severe OCD preventing meal preparation, because they're meant to use something like fresh meat, veg and potatoes to mean 'a meal' which I absolutely cannot do at all (so 8 points) but because I can physically use an oven without excessive danger I didn't get any points for that section.  As far as I know, the 'fresh ingredients' part is just a guideline rather than part of law though so it is down to the decision makers discretion.  Either way, a diagnosis certainly can't hurt the claim so would be useful to have, especially when I don't have any other evidence.

    Out of interest, what counts as a diagnosis?  Should there be something on the GP's record that specifically says 'diagnosed with XXX' or does it need to be done by a specialist?  It's now been 2 weeks since I requested online access to my medical record and but it's still a 'pending' request so I still don't know if there might be anything useful in it.  How hard it can be to click the 'allow' button within 2 weeks... :/  

    I've sort of given up on getting many points for verbal comms or mixing with people due to the very specific (and in my opinion discriminatory) nature of those descriptors.  So the best chance I have of getting any PIP at all will be with food prep which I tried to focus more on in the MR, trying to explain what happens with examples as I was suggested to on here.  
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,365 Disability Gamechanger
    It doesn't really matter who the decision maker is because they will mostly go with the report.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • OverlyAnxious
    OverlyAnxious Community member Posts: 2,587 Disability Gamechanger
    It doesn't really matter who the decision maker is because they will mostly go with the report.
    I didn't word that well but was including everyone involved in the decision process, they're all human and can use their discretion and interpret things differently.  So two people that have very similar problems but have different assessors/decision makers/tribunal judges can have a very different award outcome. 

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,365 Disability Gamechanger
    You very rarely get 2 people the same, which is why 2 people with the same condition may not be awarded the same.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • sceneparade
    sceneparade Community member Posts: 93 Courageous
    If you have autism then it would be at least 4 points for communication not 2.

    However it's also worth mentioning that generally they lump communication problems associated with autism under mixing with people, poppy's daughter for example. So you could score 0 despite having communication problems.  

    To get 4 points in communication you need to require social support to explain or understand complex things verbally. I was awarded this so it's not impossible but it can be hard apparently. When answering things I find difficult I rely on others to help because of the troubles I have expressing it and the huge amounts of stress it causes me attempting to which can spiral into panicking etc.

    Communication problems associated with anxiety or autism is hard to prove on paper due to the nature of it anyways and you kinda have to see it for yourself. Those are the kind of descriptors that are most likely to be awarded based on face to face rather than what's written on paper. 

    In my experience, that 4 points for ASD isn't true. I have failed ADOS assessments and face-to-face social interaction and communication assessments by psychiatrists specialising in autism, and yet they said my communication and interaction was normal. Made no sense. Effectively, the assessor said in the report that she knows more than the psychiatrists who are EXPERTS. 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,365 Disability Gamechanger
    Or zero in my daughters case....
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Pipquestions2
    Pipquestions2 Community member Posts: 92 Pioneering
    If you have autism then it would be at least 4 points for communication not 2.

    However it's also worth mentioning that generally they lump communication problems associated with autism under mixing with people, poppy's daughter for example. So you could score 0 despite having communication problems.  

    To get 4 points in communication you need to require social support to explain or understand complex things verbally. I was awarded this so it's not impossible but it can be hard apparently. When answering things I find difficult I rely on others to help because of the troubles I have expressing it and the huge amounts of stress it causes me attempting to which can spiral into panicking etc.

    Communication problems associated with anxiety or autism is hard to prove on paper due to the nature of it anyways and you kinda have to see it for yourself. Those are the kind of descriptors that are most likely to be awarded based on face to face rather than what's written on paper. 

    In my experience, that 4 points for ASD isn't true. I have failed ADOS assessments and face-to-face social interaction and communication assessments by psychiatrists specialising in autism, and yet they said my communication and interaction was normal. Made no sense. Effectively, the assessor said in the report that she knows more than the psychiatrists who are EXPERTS. 
    I didn't mean that your guaranteed to get it but that it would be most appropriate if you were to be awarded any points 

    @Ilovecats says 2 points though ? But I don't see how an aid etc would help someone with autism. Maybe I'm missing something but some autistic people would need either communication support or can't speak at all, which is 4+ points? I'm struggling to see a situation where someone with autism can speak with an aid?
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,365 Disability Gamechanger
    I understand what @Pipquestions2 is saying here and i agree. 2 points will be for needing an aid/appliance, which wouldn't be of any use to those with autism. C,D,E is communication support not prompting.


    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.

Brightness

Do you need advice on your energy costs?


Scope’s Disability Energy Support service is open to any disabled household in England or Wales in which one or more disabled people live. You can get free advice from an expert adviser on managing energy debt, switching tariffs, contacting your supplier and more. Find out more information by visiting our
Disability Energy Support webpage.