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PIP Refused - Unusual Circumstances

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  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,360 Disability Gamechanger
    No, it's communicating.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • OverlyAnxious
    OverlyAnxious Community member Posts: 2,586 Disability Gamechanger

    In my experience, that 4 points for ASD isn't true. I have failed ADOS assessments and face-to-face social interaction and communication assessments by psychiatrists specialising in autism, and yet they said my communication and interaction was normal. Made no sense. Effectively, the assessor said in the report that she knows more than the psychiatrists who are EXPERTS. 
    This is what I meant about different assessors earlier in the thread...if you see an assessor from a physical health background they may be fantastic at the physical examination and understanding how physical conditions impact you.  But have very little understanding of mental health issues.  I assume they just get given a very basic guide on MH in the assessor training but it's really not good enough.    My assessor clearly didn't understand how even the assessment was affecting me when I was right in front of her, let alone other situations.


  • OverlyAnxious
    OverlyAnxious Community member Posts: 2,586 Disability Gamechanger
    They don't always acknowledge receipt of the MR request letters. I've heard some receive then and some don't. It can take 10 days for them to be uploaded onto the computer and sometimes longer for them to send a text saying it's been received, if they even send one at all.

    There's no timescales for any decision.
    Hi Poppy, just letting you know I've received the confirmation text today...6 weeks after I posted the MR!  :o  

    Does that mean there's likely to be a huge backlog and a very long wait for the decision or is still a totally random timescale? 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,360 Disability Gamechanger
    There's no timescales. Hopefully not too long.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • OverlyAnxious
    OverlyAnxious Community member Posts: 2,586 Disability Gamechanger
    A lot of over-analysis here on a fairly simple issue. @OverlyAnxious I think you can articulate yourself well in writing and probably don’t need face to face advice. What you do need is directing to the correct part of the PIP regs and notably the concept of reliability. See the bottom of https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system

    Any activity you can’t complete in a reasonable time cannot be completed reliably and therefore you ought to score 1e and 9di at minimum on the information you have provided above. Plenty of other points available too on daily living and mobility. The fact you managed to go to an assessment is utterly irrelevant to social engagement as has been held repeatedly at first tier tribunal and upper tier tribunal. I’m sure you’ll find https://pipinfo.net/activities/engaging-with-other-people-face-to-face useful on this. 

    PIP assessments clearly treat mental ill health very poorly indeed. The evidence to Parliament on the point has been overwhelming although some still seek to defend assessors in circumstances which are largely indefensible. However, it’s worth noting that the focus on mental health focuses attention away from the fact that at the end of the day the assessment process itself is simply not fir for purpose. 

    No disability benefit has ever required diagnosis. All that’s required are real symptoms and the ability to articulate those with real world examples. There’s little point in worrying what an assessor thinks. By and large it you can get to tribunal their perspective is picked apart logically and they quickly move on to the more relevant issue of whether you qualify. Disproving an assessor is not the same as pricing entitlement to PIP. 

    It can’t be emphasised enough that generalities about I have x so can’t do y are assertions and not evidence. Saying you have difficulty preparing food “because” is just an assertion. You evidence the assertion with a real world example. A meal you attempted to prep with help which you had to abandon because your elements took too long. The when; where; how; why; who with; what next. Everything. 
    Thanks for the detailed reply Mike. :) 

    Sadly I've realised I made a silly error in the Mandatory Reconsideration letter regarding food prep.  I stated that it is impossible for me to prepare a meal from fresh ingredients as the guidelines state, due to overwhelming distress caused by the OCD (slightly more wordy that that but whether it's still an assertion rather than evidence I'm not sure!).  However I do have to prepare all meals myself as I can't have another person breathing and touching things in the flat let alone anywhere near the food.  But the error I made was writing that it takes me at least '50% longer' to prepare the basic foods such as sandwiches...having now read the guidelines I see that will be disregarded as it needs to be twice as long for the 'timely' criteria.  Truth is I have no idea how long it takes a normal person to do these things.

    If I was to attempt a meal from fresh ingredients it would definitely take well over twice as long, but of course I can't put both that it'll take twice as long AND that I'm totally unable to do it...(I'm probably still overthinking this!) 

    The closest I've got to 'fresh' ingredients recently was trying to cook a refrigerated breaded chicken fillet in a shrink wrapped tray.  It was meant to be a 'treat' but went badly wrong.  Still a long way from proper prep but I had to give it up in the end, I don't know how to say this in a way a normal person/assessor would understand though.  I know it sounds absolutely ridiculous and it makes me feel so pathetic & embarrassed, I haven't detailed this to anyone in real life so far despite having to go through it for almost 20 years now, the few people I have told in the last 5 years just get a few basic assertions without any detail at all.

    Because of the shrink wrapping I had to use a knife to open it which contaminated the knife, and further contaminated the worktop I had to place it on (slightly less hassle than contaminating the washing up bowl by placing it there).  I then felt like the condensation from the inside of the shrink wrapping had 'splashed' the cupboard doors, the hob and the wall tiles.  Once I had removed the shrink wrapping I had to place the damp tray on the worktop, directly and severely contaminating that.  Then had to go through extra handwashing rituals both before and after handling the chicken escalope and got stuck in a major handwashing loop afterwards as I just couldn't get rid of the feeling of contaminants and felt like I had now also contaminated the sink, tap, handles and washing up bowl.  I felt like I had contaminated more or less the whole kitchen by the time I'd managed to open the packaging and get it on to a tray.  At which point I noticed the time and realised it'd taken me over half an hour just to do that, half an hour out of the fridge felt like more than long enough for bacteria to grow to unacceptable levels so I had to discard it after all that effort & anxiety.  I then had to completely disinfect the whole kitchen before attempting any more food prep.  I finally had a couple of pieces of toast around 2 hours after I'd originally started and was absolutely exhausted.  The stress of the situation caused excess fatigue as well as stomach & bowel issues for the next couple of days.

    However, here's why I'm struggling with the PIP criteria... I have frozen breaded chicken once a week. That is in a cardboard box though, I don't have to use any utensils to open it, there's no crinkly plastic to 'splash' anything, and don't have to directly touch the product or place it on the worktop.  I just shake it out directly onto the oven tray, discard the box and place the tray in the oven all within a few minutes (not timed it but it's certainly acceptable).  I then have to go through a handwashing ritual in case there were contaminants on the box, however that's a manageable one, unlike the major loop after directly touching raw meat.

    I still don't really know whether I fit the criteria or not.  If we're assuming that PIP is purely designed to pay for a carer to come in and cook a meal then of course I don't meet that as I do get by without.  But I'm also a long way from being able to prepare a proper meal from fresh ingredients and I obviously don't have a healthy diet.

    It's also worth noting that trying to eat every meal causes major anxiety and usually results in having to run to the loo either during or immediately afterwards and often causes a panic attack as well.  I'm terrified of putting food into my body knowing it has to come out again one way or another but again I don't meet the PIP descriptor for nutrition because I do force myself to eat each day...

    If I do have to go to tribunal I don't know what I should be focussing on even after having the descriptors and regs over and over again. 

Brightness

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