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Wrong information on pip tribunal descision

michmmmichmm Member Posts: 2 Listener
Hi. I had my Pip tribunal today. I was awarded 6 points with 2 of them being for 'needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to dress or undress'. At no point on my form or during assessment or tribunal  did I say I use an aid or appliance... I said I needed help to dress/undress above the waist. I think I was entitled to 4 points for this so I would be over the threshold. I have no idea where I go from here. Any advice would be appreciated 

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,129 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    I'm sorry to hear that. You now have 1 month from the date of the decision to request the statement of reasons and record of proceedings. Once you receive these you then need to find the error in law. Without this i'm afraid that's the end of the road for this claim.

    Please also be aware of the following....
    Where a claimant chooses not to use an aid or appliance which he or she could reasonably be expected to use and which would enable them to carry out the activity without prompting, supervision or assistance, descriptor B will be appropriate, they should not be awarded a higher descriptor if using an aid or appliance would remove the need for prompting, supervision or assistance.

    Having some understanding of the PIP descriptors and what they mean really does help because it isn't always possible to score the points you think you maybe entitled to.

    Did you give reasons why you need assistance and what happened the last time you used an aid to complete those activities?

    A poorly presented case can often lead to refusal.

    Did you get help and advice with the Tribunal?

    You can start a new claim at anytime, if you don't currently have an award. However, using the same evidence you recently used will very likely see another refusal.

    These links will help you understand the PIP descriptors and criteria.






    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • david235david235 Member Posts: 170 Pioneering
    Adding to @poppy123456's excellent answer, I doubt there is an arguable error of law here. However, we do not have the advantage of being able to see all the case papers. The only proper advice is to get the written Decision and Statement of Reasons, then seek advice from an appropriately qualified person about whether the First-tier Tribunal made an error of law.


    There is always a degree of latitude in what is the correct conclusion for a decision-maker to draw on the evidence - but you would need to show that your Tribunal's decision was wrong on the arguments and evidence that was before it for the choice of descriptor to be an error of law. That is a tall order. The Upper Tribunal is not a further general appeal, merely a chance to appeal about an error of law made by the First-tier Tribunal. As such, you cannot make fresh arguments and/or introduce fresh evidence about your needs at the Upper Tribunal stage.

    There might be a breach of natural justice argument possible or, perhaps, other possible errors of law. Identifying an error of law really requires someone suitably qualified to look over the case papers. It would be a difficult task for someone with no legal training or experience.


    Even if there are one or more potential errors of law that could be taken to the Upper Tribunal, it is perhaps in your interests to start a new claim for PIP (or change of circumstances claim seeking a Daily Living component if you already have a Mobility component) that corrects the weaknesses of your current claim. It can take a year for the Upper Tribunal to hear a case - and you could lose at that stage. If you start a new claim for PIP Daily Living now, that will deal with the situation from the date of claim forwards - you still have the right to go to the Upper Tribunal though any further appeal would only deal with the situation up to the date of your new claim.

    In particular, take heed of @poppy123456 's advice: if it is reasonable for you to dress your upper body using an aid or appliance without prompting, supervision or assistance, then 2 points is the correct score for this activity. Your submissions should explicitly address aids and appliances that might be relevant, explaining why they are not reasonable for you to use.


    It is best to get help with any appeal, but especially so about a possible appeal to the Upper Tribunal. If you seek advice, I would get advice on whether to make a new claim and, if the advice is you should make a new claim, get whatever help you can with that new claim. As @poppy123456 says, it is likely that any claim putting forward the same arguments you have tried this far will result in a similar refusal of the Daily Living component. The claim that has just failed at the First-tier Tribunal has been looked at at least three and probably four times: initial decision, reconsideration, usually a further reconsideration is made when DWP receive the case papers from the First-tier Tribunal, then the First-tier Tribunal itself.
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,653 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @michmm and a warm welcome to the community! I'm sorry to hear this and I understand how frustrating this must be.

    Here is some information which may help you to see if you could appeal again.
    Scope

  • michmmmichmm Member Posts: 2 Listener
    Thank you all for your advice, I've asked for the statement of reasons and record of proceedings. 
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,653 Disability Gamechanger
    No problem @michmm, if you need any further advice then please do ask :)
    Scope

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