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Esa backpayment savings query

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  • Tina66
    Tina66 Community member Posts: 56 Connected
    Hi all, I know this was a few months ago, my brother in same position but after 52 weeks do we contact the DWP to tell them how much he has left (it's under 6k anyway)? Thanks 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,355 Disability Gamechanger
    Tina66 said:
    Hi all, I know this was a few months ago, my brother in same position but after 52 weeks do we contact the DWP to tell them how much he has left (it's under 6k anyway)? Thanks 
    Savings of less than £6,000 do not count for means tested benefits. Unless he has a total savings of more than this amount then there's no need to contact them.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Tina66
    Tina66 Community member Posts: 56 Connected
    Hiya poppy, oh he has much less now but think the confusion we have is what they mean by 'added to capital already known after 52 weeks' so we assumed that means they'd write to him to see if he's saved more money ontop of what they gave him and already disclosed?
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,355 Disability Gamechanger
    Total savings means everything he has, which includes money in all bank accounts and money at home.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Tina66
    Tina66 Community member Posts: 56 Connected
    I understand that, but I'm trying to make sense of the fact that how do they know that he hasn't gone over the 6k for example saved what he has already been given by them last year backdated and what he has declared (he definitely has less than 6k) hence why I assumed that they would contact everyone to catch people out (which I think is a good idea). I'm happy to contact them on his behalf even though you say under 6k is OK but confused as to how they can be so sure nothing has changed and not contact him ??
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,355 Disability Gamechanger
    You're making it more complicated than it is. It's the claimants responsibility to report any changes in circumstances, not DWP's responsibility to contact you.

    When he received the backdated money it would have been disregarded for 1 year. If the savings he already had were under £6,000 then they don't need to know about it. After the 12 months have passed if his total savings (including the backdated money) is less than the above amount you don't need to tell them.

    If everyone rang to report every single £1 they saved then no one would ever be able to get through to them and the waiting times for them to answer are long enough as it is.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,355 Disability Gamechanger
    Just as an example for you. In 2013 i had backdated money from PIP and ESA. This gave me a total of more than £6,000 but was disregarded for 1 year. Fast forward 1 year and of course that money had decreased. I was never contacted by DWP and i never rang to report the savings because i had less than the lower amount.

    Hope this helps.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Tina66
    Tina66 Community member Posts: 56 Connected
    Thx Poppy, yeah that does help. If you should come across wht I originally asked here on the welcome part of the community post, I put that up at the same time as I wrote on here. I can't delete it but have asked moderators to do so as to avoid confusion. Appreciate all your help. Oh, BTW does it matter that my brother went from ESA IR to UC limited capability for work in the last year too (his award for support group went over to them due to change in something) or is that still OK? ???
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,355 Disability Gamechanger
    You're welcome. No, it doesn't make any difference because UC is still a means tested benefit.

    I'm sure the admins will delete your other thread, if they haven't already.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Adrian_Scope
    Adrian_Scope Posts: 10,821 Scope online community team
    Hi @Tina66, I'm glad @poppy123456 was able to help you with this. Please let us know if you have any other queries :)
    Community Manager
    Scope
  • Tina66
    Tina66 Community member Posts: 56 Connected
    Hi all again @poppy123456 and @Adrian_Scope , yes I was very pleased. I do have another question that is a worry. My brother as you know is on UC gets rent paid and lcwra as well as sla. He also gets esa contribution-based as his esa income related  support group was migrated over to them but still gets esa cb which is deducted from UC (phew!). His work capability assessment is in June. Our uncle passed away and he may give some money to us both. I know if it is over 16k (although we don't know if esa cb will carry on) everything will stop for my brother. Now, to explain to him if he gets say 18k and uses it sensibly to pay rent etc as he's currently doing what happens when in few months he reaches under 16k, what does he have to do regarding UC and will his LCWRA be reinstated if it before June? It is a pickle ??? thank you all so much 
  • Adrian_Scope
    Adrian_Scope Posts: 10,821 Scope online community team
    Hi @Tina66.
    I'm really sorry to read about your uncle.
    If your brother remains on CB ESA after his reassessment, he'll continue to receive this, even with the inheritance. But as you say, Universal Credit will stop.
    When his savings are under 16k, UC will want evidence of how he's spent it to ensure he's not 'deprived himself of capital' and while he has between 6k and 16k, there'll be a reduction on his UC for savings. With regards to your question about LCWRA, if he continues to receive CB ESA, when he's eligible for UC again, this should just be transitioned. However, if he's found fit after his recent reassessment, I believe this complicates things.
    I'm going to tag in @Joanne_Scope, just to see if anything she might be able to add.
    Community Manager
    Scope
  • Tina66
    Tina66 Community member Posts: 56 Connected
    Hi, yes, because I find it confusing let alone him.

    ×I rang esa contribution-based but they said if his UC stops they they will stop although may pay the stamps, I don't understand.

    ×Yes please because that is the main thing about the LCWRA coming back. He doesn't travel either but if we were not getting inheritance we know he would be reassessed in June come what may but if before it would be great to have it reinstated then go through the huge stress of fit notes for him etc. 

    ×Re evidence of money, he would pay his rent and his normal things so I'm not sure what proof to give

    Thank you for condolences ??


  • Joanne_Alumni
    Joanne_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 188 Pioneering
    Hi @Tina66,

    I am not sure there is much that I can add to what @Adrian_Scope said.

    New Style ESA (called contribution based before UC started) should not be affected by capital and if your brother does inherit some money then he should still get this.
    This benefit is paid independently of the UC claim and should carry on if the UC stops.

    When your brother's capital falls below £16,000 he may not need to go through the full application process again if it is less than 6 months since his last UC payment.
    If he has an online account he may be able to go back on to his journal and reapply. It should be a simpler process.

    As far as spending his capital goes, it is fine to use the money on normal living expenses such as rent. This should be easy to evidence if he is asked. Deprivation of capital is all about reasonable expenditure and intention. If the DWP think that the money was spent to take advantage of benefits then they may say that he has deprived himself of capital. I very much doubt they could say that about paying your rent. I recommend that you keep receipts for everything. You can also use bank statements to show how the money is spent.

    Please let me know if any of this is confusing or if you have any further questions.
    Joanne 
    Scope
  • Tina66
    Tina66 Community member Posts: 56 Connected
    edited September 2019
    Hi @Joanne_Scope

    Thank you, it's a matter of waiting now to see what we/he gets.

    I find this overwhelming let alone my brother. 

    His ESA was his old claim, he was getting ESA IR after being wrongly put in ESA contribution-based for years, and when he went over to UC that IR stopped (to become Lcwra) and ESA contribution-based continued - we have never been told that it is new style as it is old claim so a bit confused and they told me when I rang thst if his UC award stops/change in circumstances, they said that his esa would stop too. 

    ????
  • Tina66
    Tina66 Community member Posts: 56 Connected
    Is it definite that if it is less than 16k within 6 months he won't have to go through all that rigmarole only his normal reassessment is in June and I think inheritance is due Oct/Nov? Thank you 
    ?? @Joanne_Scope
  • Joanne_Alumni
    Joanne_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 188 Pioneering
    Hi @Tina66,

    It is hard to find anything definite in the UC rules! It just says that he "may" be able to reapply in a simpler way. 

    I am a bit confused by what you are saying about his ESA claim. Income related ESA does not become the LCWRA. The LCWRA is the equivalent of the old ESA Support Group.

    There was an issue in the early days of UC with people who were getting a top up of Income Related ESA including a Severe Disability Premium, being wrongly moved on to UC and losing the Income Related part of their benefit. Did this happen to your brother? 
    Joanne 
    Scope
  • Tina66
    Tina66 Community member Posts: 56 Connected
    Hi, what happened was for years he was in the esa support group indefinitely but instead of getting esa ir he was getting esa contribution-based. Then they changed him to esa ir, and he received a small backdated payment too. He then had to move address and this triggered a move to UC. His esa ir component was stopped but his award was migrated over to UC so that he could then get LCWRA which is what he currently has.
    He has been kept on esa contribution-based  (deducted from UC), however, they say to me one minute if he won 2million pounds he could still get esa contribution-based but at same time they say if his UC LCWRA stops eg if my brother didn't pass next work capability assessment or got better, his esa contribution-based stops too, and so if my brother goes over 16k that's where the confusion lies as the award will also stop due to inheritance but his illness is still very much the same. Sorry, hope that makes sense ? 
  • Joanne_Alumni
    Joanne_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 188 Pioneering
      Hi,

    Ok, I understand now. Both the things you have been told are correct. 

    He can have any amount of capital and still get ESA based on contributions, as long as he continues to meet the criteria.

    If he has a new Work Capability Assessment, and he is not awarded enough points, he would lose his Conts Based ESA and the LCWRA. 

    The LCWRA is part of UC, and UC would stop if he has more than £16,000. The Conts Based ESA should continue. 

    When UC is calculated they look at the person's maximum entitlement, including all the different elements such as housing and LCWRA. They work out a total and then deduct income and income from capital etc. to work out how much to pay.

    Your brother's maximum total would not change, his LCWRA would still be part of that maximum entitlement, but the amount he receives would alter. It would stop altogether while he has over £16,000 and then change as his income from capital changes.

    The LCWRA would only be taken out of the calculation if he fails his next ESA assessment.

    I hope that is not too confusing!
    Joanne 
    Scope
  • Tina66
    Tina66 Community member Posts: 56 Connected
    Hello, thank you, we're just going to wait and see now and hope if we do get over 16k that when he does go under, (BEFORE what would have been his next assessment date in June had he not stopped his UC theoretically), that the award will be reinstated. That's the biggest concern ?? if we/he get less than 16k than better as he can just get to his normal assessment date. I'll let you know and thank you ? again ???

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