What are the legal issues surrounding installing a camera and filming carers? — Scope | Disability forum
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What are the legal issues surrounding installing a camera and filming carers?

DavidS1992
DavidS1992 Member Posts: 3 Listener
Hi guys I’ve had to sign up in unfortunate circumstances. My GF has cerebral palsy and requires care. Unfortunately we’ve noticed money going missing so I’ve decided to instal a camera for when I’m not here. 
Anyone know the legality of this am I obliged to inform the care company/council. 

Has anyone else suffered from theft from the people supposed to look after them it’s very distressing we can’t prove who took the money and we still have to potentially open our door to the person who stole from us.  The camera has definitely made me feel better just worried about legal issues. 

Comments

  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,265 Disability Gamechanger
    Firstly hi @DavidS1992, how are you today? welcome to scope, it must be very upsetting that this has happened, and tbh I haven't a clue about the legal issues, have you considered speaking to the care companies management? just to add if it were me until its sorted I would make sure any cash/valuables were kept in a safe place.
    Offering PIP advice to people with epilepsy.
  • Ails
    Ails Member Posts: 2,256 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @DavidS1992 and welcome to the Community.  It's nice to meet you.  I'm really sorry to hear about your current situation and appreciate that this is very distressing for both you and your partner.  I also am unsure about legal issues as have no experience of this, but glad the camera has made you feel better about things.  I agree with @woodbine, that it is maybe best to speak to the management of the care company you are using and to keep your valuables in a safe place.  I hope that you get to the bottom of the issue anyway and wish you all the best with it.  :smile:
    Winner of the Scope New Volunteer Award 2019.   :)
  • steve51
    steve51 Member Posts: 7,154 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @DavidS1992

    Good Afternoon & Welcome it’s great to meet you.

    I am very very sorry to hear about your current problems.

    I would only echo the above info already given from a number of our members.

    The main would be to report it asap.

    @steve51


  • Rhodie72
    Rhodie72 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    If you install surveillance equipment in a private residence you cannot install it in personal ablution areas where strangers may use the facilities but otherwise, go for it. You are not obliged by law to make anyone aware of what you do in your private premises. Hopefully you will catch the thief in action and prosecute them. police forces require a judge to sign written applications for such things but you are not the police and are not required to get such authorisations...

    Where you are filming another private premises you may fall foul of the law if the sole intent is to observe another property not in your specific control or lease agreement. If you can photograph withoput falling foul of the law then video is no different because it is rapid sequential photography.
    Dream big, plan well, achieve goals, live the dream.

  • alieshia
    alieshia Member Posts: 73 Courageous
    @DavidS1992 This link from the Citizens Advice Bureau might be worth reading https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/health/nhs-and-social-care-complaints/ I can't help with the legal side of things but you can contact CAB who may be able to help you get free legal advice just to make sure you are doing everything right. 
  • DavidS1992
    DavidS1992 Member Posts: 3 Listener
    Thanks for all the kind words guys we’ve got the camera set up facing a small safe it’s only a small cheap one but better than envelopes of cash laying on the table. Both the police and the care providers where notified straight away. 
    We decided to put a little CCTV sticker on the window even though we aren’t legally obliged to it’s to act as more of a deterrent than anything else. 
    This forum is fantastic the positive vibes from everyone’s is a joy to behold compared to most forums. I will definitely stick around thanks 🙏 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,450 Disability Gamechanger
    Rhodie72 said:
    If you install surveillance equipment in a private residence you cannot install it in personal ablution areas where strangers may use the facilities but otherwise, go for it. You are not obliged by law to make anyone aware of what you do in your private premises. Hopefully you will catch the thief in action and prosecute them. police forces require a judge to sign written applications for such things but you are not the police and are not required to get such authorisations...

    Where you are filming another private premises you may fall foul of the law if the sole intent is to observe another property not in your specific control or lease agreement. If you can photograph withoput falling foul of the law then video is no different because it is rapid sequential photography.
    Ooh dear. Not sure that’s correct at all. The right to privacy in a private place is pretty clear. There are also DPA and GDPR implications because what you’re filming is in effect personal data. This has very much an “at your own risk” scenario and I’d query why filming is the best approach here. What’s the interest outcome? Do you want the alleged thief to leave; to confess; to return property? 

    Filing without consent will likely do little more than result in anyone accused leaving. Then what? The police will have limited interest. There is a risk the filming could be treated as a civil offence. 

    The absolute starting point here has to be to forget about lay advice from a forum. This is essentially a safeguarding issue. Record and report it as such. 
  • DavidS1992
    DavidS1992 Member Posts: 3 Listener
    Rhodie72 said:
    If you install surveillance equipment in a private residence you cannot install it in personal ablution areas where strangers may use the facilities but otherwise, go for it. You are not obliged by law to make anyone aware of what you do in your private premises. Hopefully you will catch the thief in action and prosecute them. police forces require a judge to sign written applications for such things but you are not the police and are not required to get such authorisations...

    Where you are filming another private premises you may fall foul of the law if the sole intent is to observe another property not in your specific control or lease agreement. If you can photograph withoput falling foul of the law then video is no different because it is rapid sequential photography.
    Ooh dear. Not sure that’s correct at all. The right to privacy in a private place is pretty clear. There are also DPA and GDPR implications because what you’re filming is in effect personal data. This has very much an “at your own risk” scenario and I’d query why filming is the best approach here. What’s the interest outcome? Do you want the alleged thief to leave; to confess; to return property? 

    Filing without consent will likely do little more than result in anyone accused leaving. Then what? The police will have limited interest. There is a risk the filming could be treated as a civil offence. 

    The absolute starting point here has to be to forget about lay advice from a forum. This is essentially a safeguarding issue. Record and report it as such. 
    I’m from the U.K. and having looked further into the legality I’m fine especially with the sticker warning that it’s in use. We don’t expect the thief to be caught the camera is purely there because it makes both me and Kate feel less anxious when I’m not home. Her social worker has got us a new team of carers from a different company that’s also really put my mind at ease but the whole ordeal makes it hard to trust people. Like I said it’s basically a deterrent 
  • Rhodie72
    Rhodie72 Member Posts: 16 Connected
     Ooh dear. Not sure that’s correct at all. The right to privacy in a private place is pretty clear. There are also DPA and GDPR implications because what you’re filming is in effect personal data. This has very much an “at your own risk” scenario and I’d query why filming is the best approach here. What’s the interest outcome? Do you want the alleged thief to leave; to confess; to return property? 

    Filing without consent will likely do little more than result in anyone accused leaving. Then what? The police will have limited interest. There is a risk the filming could be treated as a civil offence. 

    The absolute starting point here has to be to forget about lay advice from a forum. This is essentially a safeguarding issue. Record and report it as such. 
    As somebody who works with police forces obtaining covert surveillance, my advice is 100% accurate according to legislation. I am not a solicitor that prosecutes cases but in this issue the law is simply vacant in private residences which means you are free to do anything that you want in the privacy of your own property. GDPR applies to companies and public institutions as does DPA. You are neither a company or public sector institution. 
    Dream big, plan well, achieve goals, live the dream.

  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,450 Disability Gamechanger
    Good start getting GDPR completely wrong there then!!!

    ” processing carried out by individuals purely for personal/household activities.”.

    There is already caselaw suggesting that what’s described here is neither of the above. 

    At the risk of introducing unnecessary levity, the police record on legitimate covert surveillance is at best poor and well recorded. It’s got its own Wikipedia page last time I looked. Asserting you’re right because of who you are rather than linked references to law, case law and guidance? Never great imo. 

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