Hi. I am a PIP Decision Maker (Case Manager). Ask me anything.

TRB2462 · October 2020

I am currently employed as a PIP Case Manager working on new claims. Ask me anything.

All views are my own. Any advice given or information discussed is strictly from personal knowledge and I will not disclose any information that I am not authorised to discuss in the public forum. This is not an official exercise and I am doing this completely out of personal interest. I will absolutely not discuss specifics of individual cases.

anxiousbird · October 2020

do case managers know that the independent assessors lie a lot in their reports? If so, why has there been no action against them?

Cress · October 2020

Hello a d welcome

I'd be interested to know do you read the pip forms or just the assessors report?
And why might a decision maker go against an assessment?
Just had my report through...
Thanks

TRB2462 · October 2020

Hi anxiousbird. From my experience, I have never looked at an assessment report and thought, this is a pack of lies. But I have looked at many reports that are poor quality where the HP has not justified the chosen descriptors with any real evidence. In these cases, if it's just one or two activities I feel are incorrectly scored, I'm able to change the descriptors myself aslong as I can justify my choices with evidence. If there is multiple descriptors in question the report can be sent back to the AP for what is called AP Advice. Lastly, the final option is to send the case back for a complete rework. This is done in cases where the report is simply not fit for purpose.

These are some of the tools available to a CM where a poor quality report is received. Personally, I went into this job as a person raised in poverty with disabled relatives who have struggled with the system and I will always fight for the claimant where I can. Not every CM will and there, imo, lies the issue.

poppy123456 · October 2020

Why would a DWP CM come onto an internet forum, announce who they are and then randomly ask members to ask them anything. I find this very odd, sorry just my opinion.

Mikew1978 · October 2020

How can pip decide and who decides to take deductions from pip a non means tested disability benefit, especially when said deductions are already being recovered via u/c?.

poppy123456 · October 2020

Mikew1978 said:

How can pip decide and who decides to take deductions from pip a non means tested disability benefit, especially when said deductions are already being recovered via u/c?.

I answered your question on your other thread.

TRB2462 · October 2020

Cress said:

Hello a d welcome
I'd be interested to know do you read the pip forms or just the assessors report?
And why might a decision maker go against an assessment?
Just had my report through...
Thanks

Hi! Thankyou:)

The PIP form (PIP2) is always the first document we look at. This is because it's the foundation of the claim and is an important piece of evidence in the sense that it tells us what your conditions are, what medications you are on, what level of medical input you receive and what level of restriction is being reported. We can compare this with other evidence to check for consistency, etc Most CMs including me will "score" the PIP2 against the descriptors to then see if this matches with what the HP has chosen and if there are differences, look at what the evidence supports. This also plays a part in the writing of the decision notification. For example, if you claim an E but an A is awarded. The letter would read, you said you have difficulties with ......... I decided you can .......... Unaided, etc

My process is;

PIP2
AP report
Additional evidence (usually supplied by the claimant)

In regards to your last question

In can be for many reasons but in the majority of cases, the DM would only disagree with the AP if it works in the claimants favour.

The most common reasons are supreme court judgements. The latest being the 'MM' judgement regarding activity 9, 'engaging'. I'm changing so many 9Bs to 9Cs. The bar is quite low. Holistic decision making is a hot topic at the moment, so for example, if asisstance is awarded for one activity, we should be looking at the overall picture to see if the same could apply for another activity, etc It mostly comes down to how well the AP has justified their choice and if we feel there is enough evidence to do so, we are completely empowered to change it, like I mentioned, this can be for various reasons.

You may find it interesting to know that we are now considering any ESA/UC85s as part of the evidence for PIP now too.

I hope this is of some interest to you feel free to ask any follow ups

TRB2462 · October 2020

poppy123456 said:

Why would a DWP CM come onto an internet forum, announce who they are and then randomly ask members to ask them anything. I find this very odd, sorry just my opinion.

Honestly, it is quite odd I suppose. Maybe because DWP staff are not regularly open to conversation about their job or are generally perceived as heartless. I thought it could be an interesting experience or insight. Nothing more, nothing less. I've been on the forum previously, including before my employment and thought it would be a good place for a chat.

If the general consensus is that this is inapropriate, I'm happy to take it down

TRB2462 · October 2020

gentlegee1976 · October 2020

Question for TRB2462 -
1. Why do you think the appeal rate against PIP decisions is so high? Currently almost 75 percent of all PIP decisions are overturned on appeal, yet the number of decisions overturned on mandatory reconsideration is very low (under 18 percent)

2. Why are so many of the decisions wrong in the first place?

3. Do DWP decision makers have ANY medical training at all?

anxiousbird · October 2020

Another question: once the report comes back from the independent assessment, do the case managers actually look at the supporting evidence initially provided by the claimant or do they just look at the assessor’s report?

I’m not asking about what you would do personally, as I think you seem like a genuinely concerned CM, but I’m asking in general what do CMs do?

poppy123456 · October 2020

I just feel extremely uneasy with you being here, sorry just my personal opinion. For this reason i won't be making any further comments on this thread.

TRB2462 · October 2020

gentlegee1976 said:

Question for TRB2462 -
1. Why do you think the appeal rate against PIP decisions is so high? Currently almost 75 percent of all PIP decisions are overturned on appeal, yet the number of decisions overturned on mandatory reconsideration is very low (under 18 percent)

2. Why are so many of the decisions wrong in the first place?

3. Do DWP decision makers have ANY medical training at all?

Hi.

To be honest, I can't answer your first two questions unfortunately. I'm a new claims CM and have no involvement with and are not trained in mandatory recons or appeals.

I can confirm that we are in no way medically trained.

TRB2462 · October 2020

poppy123456 said:

I just feel extremely uneasy with you being here, sorry just my personal opinion. For this reason i won't be making any further comments on this thread.

poppy123456 said:

I just feel extremely uneasy with you being here, sorry just my personal opinion. For this reason i won't be making any further comments on this thread.

Hi,

I really do apologise for this. It was in no way my intention for anyone to feel uncomfortable by my presence at all but can see why you would feel like that. I suppose this was a little ill thought and nieve on my part. This is a brilliant forum and I genuinely hope everyone can still feel comfortable finding support here.

I will leave it there for now. Kind Regards all.

chiarieds · October 2020

Hi @TRB2462 - & welcome to this community. I appreciate your input, & believe a CM also helped me. My first PIP assessment did not go well....I'm a physio, & altho I haven't worked as such for a long time, always mention this to another Dr, or, as in this case, a HCP, as a courtesy. She 'joked,' as she later said, that she heard the cries of pain from people undergoing physio in the next room; made me feel most uncomfortable; kept on saying she would come back to my problems later in more detail, but didn't; wouldn't let my son say much, etc, & argued with me that I didn't have a wet room!

A CM rang me up out of the blue the following week, & I felt in about 15 mins he had understood how my disability affected me way better. I then had to go through a 2nd PIP assessment. When I asked for a copy of the 2nd HCP's assessment, I was told this would be sent to me. When I asked, out of interest, for a copy of my first assessment, I was told it didn't exist on their computer system. I'm only grateful that it appears a CM stepped in, & realised there were problems with my first assessment. How often might this happen?

So many people in this community feel their assessment was full of 'inaccuracies,' but sadly so many don't realise what PIP is about, so their claim pack also doesn't back up their problems with appropriate evidence, nor do many understand how to complete the initial form. So sadly many claim forms are also of poor quality.

So many 'cut & paste' examples in an assessment report make some of our members feel that the assessor was talking about somebody else. My own was because I didn't see a 'pain management specialist nor a physiotherapy specialist,' I could walk further than I'd stated without being in pain. My GP had stated that pain management was largely ineffective in those with my disorder, he also said I was a physio, something I'd mentioned 3 times in my claim pack, as well as to the HCP. Altho I had 10 points for both the daily living & mobility components, I went for a Mandatory Reconsideration (sending in evidence of my Physiotherapy qualification), & was awarded the enhanced mobility component. Wouldn't it be good if HCPs could just write a considered report, rather than employing some of these 'cut & paste' responses?

earthchild23 · October 2020

@TRB2462 How many case managers are told by Dwp to come on these forums to instigate information from claimants?

I feel this is a bit dodgy because it’s normally scope advisors saying information who have been checked ect now I’m thinking are you taking information off here, off vulnerable people. I’m not trying to be rude or anything but we come on here for support and as a safe space can @Chloe_Scope @poppy123456 @Ross_Scope check this I’m not trying to be rude just seems weird DWP coming on here that’s taking assessments of people to another level.

ernie2009 · October 2020

TRB2462 said:

I am currently employed as a PIP Case Manager working on new claims. Ask me anything.

All views are my own. Any advice given or information discussed is strictly from personal knowledge and I will not disclose any information that I am not authorised to discuss in the public forum. This is not an official exercise and I am doing this completely out of personal interest. I will absolutely not discuss specifics of individual cases

ernie2009 · October 2020

@TRB2462 hi trb2462, you say From my experience, I have never looked at an assessment report and thought, this is a pack of lies but surely and being truthfull you must of heard it time and time again ?. ive not been on this forum long but ive read many peoples views about how their reports are far from the truth. i just wonder how long it will be allowed to continue where people are being assessed only to get a copy of their report which is far from what they have stated which causes a whole lot more stress.

Cress · October 2020

TRB2462 said:

Cress said:

Hello a d welcome
I'd be interested to know do you read the pip forms or just the assessors report?
And why might a decision maker go against an assessment?
Just had my report through...
Thanks

Hi! Thankyou:)

The PIP form (PIP2) is always the first document we look at. This is because it's the foundation of the claim and is an important piece of evidence in the sense that it tells us what your conditions are, what medications you are on, what level of medical input you receive and what level of restriction is being reported. We can compare this with other evidence to check for consistency, etc Most CMs including me will "score" the PIP2 against the descriptors to then see if this matches with what the HP has chosen and if there are differences, look at what the evidence supports. This also plays a part in the writing of the decision notification. For example, if you claim an E but an A is awarded. The letter would read, you said you have difficulties with ......... I decided you can .......... Unaided, etc

My process is;

PIP2
AP report
Additional evidence (usually supplied by the claimant)

In regards to your last question

In can be for many reasons but in the majority of cases, the DM would only disagree with the AP if it works in the claimants favour.

The most common reasons are supreme court judgements. The latest being the 'MM' judgement regarding activity 9, 'engaging'. I'm changing so many 9Bs to 9Cs. The bar is quite low. Holistic decision making is a hot topic at the moment, so for example, if asisstance is awarded for one activity, we should be looking at the overall picture to see if the same could apply for another activity, etc It mostly comes down to how well the AP has justified their choice and if we feel there is enough evidence to do so, we are completely empowered to change it, like I mentioned, this can be for various reasons.

You may find it interesting to know that we are now considering any ESA/UC85s as part of the evidence for PIP now too.

I hope this is of some interest to you feel free to ask any follow ups

Well that's reassuring to know...appreciate your taking the time.
Hope you pop back, I think more people would probably like to pick your brain...
Eg I for one would like to know can a dim be bought off with a bung of jaffa cakes?
Pineapple ones?
No?

Cress · October 2020

Sorry that's dm not dim...need to learn how to edit a post...

Lee99 · October 2020

Honestly would not like to stoke your ego maybe if you wanted to help you could of commented on questions with helpful answers not announce to us all you are a decision maker i wunder weather your employer would think this a good idea ,?

Hi. I am a PIP Decision Maker (Case Manager). Ask me anything.

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