Had a phonecall from PIP before tribunal

calcotti said:

I simply followed the logic of your suggestion that you were surprised that benefits could be awarded without a diagnosis or medical backup. It follows that someone without such information would not be able to claim. In fact the rules mean that it is possible (although certainly not easy).

poppy123456 said:

Middleton said:

Ok last attempt! and i dont mean that offensively.

You employ me...

I call you ,and tell you that i have x,y and z symptoms...My word (the reason i mention FITNOTES is because , after 7 days of self certificating, by law and to get paid, you have to see the Dr, and get some type of diagnosis/prognosis..  No employee would just allow my word. So for an employer to not allow an employee to go sick for 5yrs say..without great evidence...why do PIP?.. anyone could say they had a witness etc..or often some people cannot truly prove their symptoms... its such a broad scope that is actually hard to truly prove unless so obvious as to leave no doubt.

I don't know why you're comparing it to employers and fit notes when PIP has nothing to do with anyone's fitness to work. It's two completely different things.

Why is it potentially fraud if someone claims PIP without a diagnosis? That's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. Very few people claim PIP fraudulenty. So going by your thoughts those people including my daughter when i first claimed PIP for her should never be awarded without a diagnosis? Blimey!

poppy123456 said:

Middleton said:

It seems ive got to spell this all out..lol

It seems like the other way round to me.

Middleton said:

Anyone could say x,y and z without any medical proof and give statements(examples) descriptors...etc...  And of course, even people with diagnosis can exaggerate...But i would state that to have no diagnosis at all, and minimal professional evidence, could...(operative word "could" )lead to easy fraud... theres another nuance.. See! theres many layers to this entire PIP benefit that can lead to so many bogus claims...

You couldn't be more wrong here. In fact it's the other way round. A persons real world examples are very often more use than medical evidence which basically tells them... hardly anything at all.

Middleton said:

The inference being, belief?   An employee will not by law just rely on your word..Hence, isnt it easier for PIP to see that at least the claimant has had a Professionals best attempts, which in some way would elude to some type of prognosis?

There's quite a difference between DWP and an employer. As i keep advising across many threads medical evidence isn't needed and why? because very often it doesn't tell them anything related to how their conditions affect them.

Then to answer your last paragraph which you've since edited and removed, no, a diagnosis is simply not needed to successfully claim PIP.

calcotti said:

I simply followed the logic of your suggestion that you were surprised that benefits could be awarded without a diagnosis or medical backup. It follows that someone without such information would not be able to claim. In fact the rules mean that it is possible (although certainly not easy).Y





Youre just not catching it..lol

Its your word without diagnosis and no Drs notes yes?> as an example.?

So on that premise, someone without any Specialists proof etc can say x y and z...Say , as youve mentioned already. You claimed without a diagnosis..At least a diagnosis would allude to a whole host of symptoms that you could experience... and yes, you would have to prove it..but as you mention(paraphrase) how does one really prove it?  but at least if someone has a prognosis ,at the  minimum...at least that helps to suggest the  likely hood of possible symptoms.

This is why people with M.E Fibro  have such  difficultly claiming sometimes..Hopefully thats changing..

But to have zero evidence other than your word alone(hence why i stated as an example only, that even an employer will not take your word for being ill without Hospital attendence,gps)

We'll have to agree to disagree and i wholeheartedly disagree with you...but no problems!