Permitted work limits

bubsxo
bubsxo Online Community Member Posts: 34 Contributor
in Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
Hi guys, me again! Looking for some more advice :)

Ive been doing permitted work since April last year receiving £608 a month, which was 16 hours x minimum wage at the time of £9.50 meaning i wasnt going over the £152 limit per week. DWP had copies of most of my wage slips and had no issues at all as they stated i could work upto 16/earn no more than £152. I did have a problem where my employer paid me accrued annual leave in December taking me over my earnings so my ESA was stopped for that month and reinstated in January. Ive just set up a payment plan to pay that overpayment back. 

However ive receieved a new permitted work form to fill in? Which states i must work less than 16 hours per week and earn no more than £167 per week as the national minimum wage has gone up. £167 pw would be £668 a month and for the last 2 months ive been paid £666.88 which is £166.72 pw meening imwithin the limit however that is at 16 hours per week and im concerned as it used to state you could work upto 16 hours and now it says less than 16. As stated previously they were aware all this time i was doing 16 hours as that equated to £152 pw. Now it adds up to the £167 they say im allowed to earn but now i cannot work 16 hours? So surely it should be no more than £152.30 if the minimum wage is £10.42?

Im concerned now ill lose my entitlement from april 2023 or possibly thr whole time?

Can someone elaborate please?

Thankyou.

Comments

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,463 Championing
    bubsxo said:
    im concerned as it used to state you could work upto 16 hours and now it says less than 16.

    That's not correct. Permitted work rules have always been less than 16 hours and not up to 16 hours.
  • bubsxo
    bubsxo Online Community Member Posts: 34 Contributor
    "ESA claimants can do permitted work for up to 16 hours, earning up to £152 per week" this was prior to it going up to £167 and even so to do less than 16 hours and earn no more than 167 youd have to be earning slightly more than the minimum wage. 16 x 10.42 = 167. 

    I guess my next question is do they average it? I do 64 hours a month. There is not exactly 4 weeks in a month?

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,463 Championing
    The permitted work hours have always been less than 16 hours, it's never been up to 16 hours. The rules are you must work less than that and earn no more than £167/week. Before April it was also less than 16 hours and no more than £152/week.

    How often are you paid, fortnightly, monthly, 4 weekly?
  • bubsxo
    bubsxo Online Community Member Posts: 34 Contributor
    I also rang Scopes advice line before i started work and was told up to 16 hours as thats the information i gave my employer before i began work and its what we wrote on my permitted work form. I was also told the same from the DWP when i rang esa to ask for the form initially? Theyve basically been aware i do 64 hours a month. 

    I get paid the 15th of every month. 
  • calcotti
    calcotti Online Community Member Posts: 10,001 Championing
    edited June 2023
    stormy said:
    I remember it as 15 hours max for permitted work
    Permitted Work has never been 15 hours max, it is less than 16 hours.
    bubsxo said:
    "ESA claimants can do permitted work for up to 16 hours, earning up to £152 per week" this was prior to it going up to £167
    I don’t know where you are quoting from but it is incorrect. As poppy has said, the regulations have always referred to less than 16 hours/week.
    See ESA Regs 2008
    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/794/regulation/45/made
    ” Work which is done for less than 16 hours a week,”

    This was the same in earlier ESA regulations and in the later ESA regulations.

    As you are paid monthly your weekly earnings will be calculated as the monthly amount x 12 / 52.

    £167/week = £723.66/month

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,463 Championing
    bubsxo said:
    I also rang Scopes advice line before i started work and was told up to 16 hours as thats the information i gave my employer before i began work and its what we wrote on my permitted work form. I was also told the same from the DWP

    That's very poor advice from the scope helpline. When you ring any DWP department you're speaking to someone from a call centre who usually have very little knowledge of the benefits system.
  • bubsxo
    bubsxo Online Community Member Posts: 34 Contributor
    As you are paid monthly your weekly earnings will be calculated as the monthly amount x 12 / 52.

    £167/week = £723.66/month

    But im not im paid £666.88 a month so would it not be my monthly amount x 12 / 52 = £153.89?

    My payslips for the last year have always said 64 hours
  • bubsxo
    bubsxo Online Community Member Posts: 34 Contributor
    poppy123456 said:
    bubsxo said:
    I also rang Scopes advice line before i started work and was told up to 16 hours as thats the information i gave my employer before i began work and its what we wrote on my permitted work form. I was also told the same from the DWP

    That's very poor advice from the scope helpline. When you ring any DWP department you're speaking to someone from a call centre who usually have very little knowledge of the benefits system.
    Its frustrating as the call centres are the direction youre pointed to. Unforunately Scope did advise that as I text my manager straight away and it says upto 16 :/
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,463 Championing
    calcotti said:

    £167/week = £723.66/month


    Calcotti's comment here was referring to the £167/week permitted work earnings as a monthly payment, not your actual earnings.

    As you're paid monthly then your hours should be spread out over the month in the same way your earnings will be. As you're working 64 hours/month then this will be less than 16 hours/week. Same for your earnings, which are less than the maximum amount of £723.66/month. It would be completely different if you were paid 4 weekly.

    I can't see that there would be any issues here.
  • calcotti
    calcotti Online Community Member Posts: 10,001 Championing
    edited June 2023
    bubsxo said:
    As you are paid monthly your weekly earnings will be calculated as the monthly amount x 12 / 52.

    £167/week = £723.66/month

    But im not im paid £666.88 a month so would it not be my monthly amount x 12 / 52 = £153.89?

    My payslips for the last year have always said 64 hours
    I did that calculation to show the maximum amount someone come earn when paid monthly and stay within Permitted Work rules. You earn less so are within the earnings limit.

    As regards hours worked you said in your opening post
    bubsxo said:
    .. £167 pw would be £668 a month ..
    You have made the common mistake of equating one month to 4 weeks. A month is more than 4 weeks.
  • bubsxo
    bubsxo Online Community Member Posts: 34 Contributor
    I think it just gets a little confusing as the paperwork you're sent is quite basic and then you're told the main point of call for any enquiries should be the dwp themselves but they are not very knowledgable like you said and often give the wrong information. I think most people would make the same mistake of there being 4 weeks in a month. I now understand alot better and know that im within the limits so thank you both for your help / knowledge! @poppy123456 and @calcotti
  • L_Volunteer
    L_Volunteer Community Volunteer Adviser, Scope Member Posts: 7,922 Championing
    Until I started looking at fluctuations in wages per month (very recently - this year!), I also made the mistake of thinking there were 4 weeks in a month @bubsxo. How confusing indeed. Glad to hear you have received the support you need though. Please do not hesitate to let us know if there's anything else we can do to help  :)

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