A bit more information on ESA/UC WCA reassessments.

Thanks very much. I did see an article earlier on saying that 516,000 uc/esa claimants could lose the support group payment under the changes but those who currently claim pip would still get it. I hope i got this right (could be wrong), Thanks again

On second thoughts, that document is a note from November 2023 dating from before the Autumn Statement on 22nd November 2023.  It is headed 'WCA Changes - Approach to Reassessments'.  

The WCA changes it refers to are obviously the ones following consultation which were announced in the Autumn Statement - changes to descriptors and activities and narrowing the scope of the substantial risk provisions.  The Autumn Statement and subsequent questions in Parliament make it clear those WCA changes are not intended to take place before 2025. 

The fact the note mentions 'how best to approach reassessments once the WCA changes have been introduced from September 2024' probably is a date that was previously in mind.  Making any changes to the WCA will require primary legislation.  It was obviously decided that there is no time during this Parliament to legislate for those changes because we have a general election in 2024.  So, the fact the note refers to from September 2024 is not relevant, I now realise.  Sorry for my confusion, @Votadini.

Also, I was overthinking it a bit by reading into it that it refers to how to prioritise reassessments for ESA Support Group/UC LCWRA.  It just refers to reassessments generally, which obviously includes ESA WRAG/UC LCW.

So, they are an interesting set of documents but don't really tell us anything more than we already knew from the previous ones disclosed by FOI.  They are currently reassessing ESA WRAG/UC LCW awards and short term ESA Support Group/UC LCWRA awards as a top up depending on capacity with the assessment providers.  They then expect to scale up to tackle other ESA Support Group/UC LCWRA reassessments due, again depending on available capacity with the assessment providers.

Sadly, I don't share the idea that they are not going to bother with reassessing those of us in the ESA Support Group/UC LCWRA - 'abolishing' reassessments.  I just think the majority of us won't be reassessed for a long while simply because there isn't sufficient capacity with the assessment providers because of new claims and post Covid backlogs.

Votadini said:

Hi Asia 23.

mentions reassessing those in the Support Group and LCWRA with the 'greatest propensity to change award' from September 2024 onwards, including those awarded on the basis of substantial risk.

As far as I can see that's referring to reassessments after their proposed WCA changes have been introduced. In other words for new claimants. Otherwise points 1 and 8 of that document would make no sense.

I do however have a considerable capacity for being wrong and have drunk a lot of wine this evening so I'll have another look when I've sobered up.

Thanks @Votadini

I also just posted after that post to say that note referred to 'from September 2024' but given there's a general election this year and WCA changes need to pass through Parliament first, it really means from September 2025 which is what the Autumn Statement subsequently said. 

As you say, it's about reassessing new claimants after the changes come into effect.  These are Tory proposed changes.  If they don't form the next government, these proposed changes will likely be scrapped anyway.

Enjoy your wine! 

Votadini said:

Hi again Asia 23.

So, they are an interesting set of documents but don't really tell us anything more than we already knew from the previous ones disclosed by FOI.

On this one point we must disagree, they show a recommendation was strongly made to cease reassessments for existing Support Group/LCRWA claimants which made its way into the Autumn Statement and nothing ministers have said since contradicts that. As is par for the course with this government they've obfuscated and offered half truths.

I'm going to be reassured by your certainty on this @Votadini I wish they hadn't rowed back from their statements in November.  It's insulting.

I suspect there's a Labour government in waiting.  Changes to the WCA won't be as draconian, if they happen at all.  I also don't think Labour will go along with the Tory White Paper proposals last Spring to abolish WCAs entirely and use PIP as a passport to a health element in UC.  It's too unfair on those who aren't eligible for PIP but are clearly not fit for work.

The Shadow Chancellor and Work & Pensions Secretary have, however, made similar noises to the Tories about too many working age people off sick long term (i.e. those of us in ESA Support Group/UC LCWRA) who are hindering 'growth'.  That is depressing, but they've talked about providing more resources to the NHS for people to get more timely treatment if that is hindering a return to work.  Otherwise, their solutions appear to be more carrot than stick.  It was Jonathan Ashworth MP's idea when he was Shadow Work & Pensions Secretary earlier last year to incentivise Support Group/LCWRA claimants to try work with no danger of losing out of work  benefits or being reassessed and the Tories nicked it.  So, I suspect that 'guarantee' will survive in some form.

Thanks again for the updates. 

Votadini said:

Another interesting detail is they've switched off the automatic system which refers claimants for a WCA based on their prognosis length so as of now award durations are meaningless and they're talking about creating a new 'prioritisation mechanism'.

Hi @Votadini.  Just wondering what's meant by this earlier comment you made.  Does this mean that reassessment due dates based on prognosis for review or deferral for review have been switched off?  I was due to be reassessed last summer and assume was automatically deferred for 2 years.  Is that now meaningless?  Those FOI docs are a year old, though.

Thanks for any insight.

Votadini said:

According to these latest documents it's been turned back on but for LCW cases only. I was supposed to be reassessed over 3 years ago so they've got a hell of a lot of people to get through before they get to you. Regardless of what's happening I think you're good for a long while yet.

Thanks @Votadini

Actually my review due last summer had previously been deferred two years earlier.  I was due to be reassessed in the summer of 2021 but due to Covid and backlogs it was deferred off for 2 years and obviously deferred off again last summer.  So, in fact I am about 3.5 years overdue for reassessment.  So, I am probably in the same boat as you.

Asia23 said:

Sorry @Votadini

Actually not 3.5 years overdue.  But 2.5 years overdue! 

Except you're not overdue. LCWRA/Support Group is an ongoing award until a new decision says otherwise. Even in normal times the timescales are just a guide. In the 10 years I've claimed ESA I've never contacted them to ask what my referral date is because it's pointless. 

It has been know for people not be reviewed for several years. 

@Votadini said" Another interesting detail is they've switched off the automatic system which refers claimants for a WCA based on their prognosis length so as of now award durations are meaningless and they're talking about creating a new 'prioritisation mechanism'." (March 2023)

I (kuju2) applied for PIP back in June 2023, I then received an ESA50 at the same time. I hadn't been reasseseed since about 2011. If the automatic system was turned off for the prognosis date, could it be that by applying for PIP, it triggered a WCA? I just think it is very suspect that I received the ESA50 if the automatic system was turned off? When I rang the DWP about it they stated that my prognosis date was 23rd June 2023.

In the end I ended my PIP claim as I could not face the WCA and PIP at the same time.

I wonder whether the system flagged up me applying for PIP as a change of circumstances as I received a letter from the ESA people when I applied which mentioned 'we have looked at your claim following a recent change'. When I cancelled the PIP claim I received an identical letter along with a leaflet about how to inform DWP about change of circumstances.

I have been petrified to apply for PIP ever since in case it triggers another WCA. I had made a plan to commit suicide whilst going through my WCA in 2023 and I really can't go through that again. (I was put back into the support group after a phone assessment in Jan 2024).

I am currently receiving IR and CB ESA so will be migrated at some point this year (2025) and will be on CB ESA and Universal Credit. I am thinking I may put in another claim for PIP once the migration has taken place, because as far as I can see by Googling, applying for PIP does not count as change of circumstances or trigger WCA for CB ESA or Universal Credit, I don't know whether this is correct? I'm really hoping someone can clarify this for me as I CANNOT face another WCA until I absolutely have to or if the new government is no longer doing WCA's for LCWRA/Support group, I do not want to trigger one if applying for PIP will count as a change of circumsances.