PIP Q13 Planning and following a journey - help please

Daphne89
Daphne89 Online Community Member Posts: 2 Listener
in PIP, DLA, ADP and AA

Hi all. I am filling in the PIP form for my father but I am confused about a couple of things on Q13 Planning/following a journey.

 1. Does following a journey include going for a walk (for exercise purposes) in the nearby park? He can do this alone as he is familiar with the route and the park is less than 5 minutes walk away.

 2. Which, if any, of descriptors B to F apply to my dad's situation? Here is a brief outline of it:

Without going into specific conditions, his poor mental health means that he is unmotivated to leave the house. He only really leaves to go for a walk near his house, and for medical appointments, which I take him to in the car about once per week.

He can physically plan routes by typing the details into Google Maps but wouldn't be able to plan a route if he had to use maps or timetables as he has autism which affects this ability. 

He does not have anxiety about leaving the house

There are several reasons I take him to medical appointments

1. He cannot drive

2. He is not able to follow a route he is not familiar with. This extends to public transport too and is due to information overwhelm (autism) when trying to follow written or verbal directions or read a map

3. He would also not use public transport alone for unfamiliar journeys because he would be too anxious about dealing with the uncertainty of it

4. Being on any public transport can trigger mental symptoms that leave him unable to look after himself. Without going into details, it would be unsafe for him to be alone in these situations. He experiences some symptoms on every journey by public transport but the severity of them varies and is not predictable so sometimes he can get himself home but not other times. To avoid the symptoms that are always triggered, he now doesn't take any journeys by public transport.

Please let me know if you need any more info. I would be grateful for any help.

Thanks

Comments

  • Rosie_Scope
    Rosie_Scope Posts: 6,656 Scope Online Community Coordinator

    Hi @Daphne89, welcome to the community.

    It sounds like he would likely fit either descriptor D or E. It's possible that he can do some journeys with prompting (B), but if he's unsafe or under severe overwhelm from his autism when travelling or planning, then the other descriptors might describe his difficulties more accurately.

    The guidance says that to be seen as able to do a particular activity, someone has to be able to so it safely, repeatedly and within a reasonable time:

    1. "safely” means in a manner unlikely to cause harm to [the claimant] or to another person, either during or after completion of the activity;
    2. “repeatedly” means as often as the activity being assessed is reasonably required to be completed; and
    3. “reasonable time period” means no more than twice as long as the maximum period that a person without a physical or mental condition which limits that person’s ability to carry out the activity in question would normally take to complete that activity.

    So if your father would struggle on his own or become unsafe during an unfamiliar journey more often than not, it should be taken into account that he can't perform that activity. I hope that makes sense!

    When you're describing how his conditions affect him, try to use plenty of detail and describe any real world examples of things that have happened to him and what the consequences were as that can often be very helpful for them to make a decision.

    Citizens Advice also have some guidance that you might find useful for this question in case you'd like to read about it:

    Q13: going out - Citizens Advice

  • NoOne
    NoOne Online Community Member Posts: 85 Contributor

    Can I add something I just read. It says (in my notes) if you can go out once in a day but other times in the same day you can't, they you are classed as able to go out, just because you did it once. If it matters. (I was thinking about myself as I should go out at around 3pm to do something but often go out hours later, especially if its dark, and sometimes won't go out). Please do check this as my notes are one year old.

    Oh can I ask a question wrt to this. When the PIP talks of harm, it always seems to focus on physical harm. Can't people with mental health problems include harm to their mental health from activities?

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,463 Championing
    https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/930758#Comment_930758

    If you are unable to undertake any journey because of Overwhelming Psychological distress (night time isn't included) then this would be activity 11E and would score 10 points for mobility.

    Yes, harm can include mental health.

  • NoOne
    NoOne Online Community Member Posts: 85 Contributor
    https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/930782#Comment_930782

    Thank you. I must use that last point in my PIP.

  • Daphne89
    Daphne89 Online Community Member Posts: 2 Listener

    Thank you for your answers and advice everyone. I think

    I have a couple of follow-up questions:

    What if someone is able to go for a walk on their own? i.e. they don't need help to leave their house, go for a walk nearby and come back. Does this mean they can complete a journey unaided and therefore get zero points? I'm just trying to understand descriptor A.

    I saw elsewhere that someone was considered to fall into descriptor A because they could take a taxi on their own. Maybe I misunderstood so please could you clarify if this would be the case? If they use a taxi because they can't navigate a route on public transport alone, then to me, the taxi driver is doing the navigating. The passenger needs the assistance of the driver to follow the route.

    This is a bit of a hypothetical situation because we haven't tried to put my father in a taxi due to the cost of it and I'm unsure how he'd react in that situation. He may need someone to help him emotionally as well as for navigation, in which case the driver would not be able to offer the emotional element. I'm just thinking ahead to the assessment really in case they ask about taxis. I would like to understand where we would stand.

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