To charge or not to charge that is the question?

onebigvoice

I recently (1 1/2 ago) got a Hybrid car, as I decided not to go all electric as the price of electric was on the rise, and is still going.
  Since I do not have any control over the price I thought if I went all electric, what ever the rates were I would be locked into for 3 years where as petrol if you shop around can get some good deals.
  I don't normally advertise but things like Morrison's offer 5p off a litre for £35 of grocery spend?  Yes I do know its a ploy but when petrol prices are still tumbling an extra 5p is good.
  Here is something I found but can't understand.  If as reported people are now plugging into the grid at the wrong times the consumption goes up and the tariff.
Standing charges are daily and can amount to £3.50 / week? for some thing that you don't own and are renting?
  they are...  Comparison in my area.

Include 5% VAT in prices

Showing 1-2 of 2

Standard PAYGO SMETS2 Check availability

Payment and billing method	Unit Rate pence per kWh	Standing charge pence per day	Tariff information TIL
Pay as you go	32.93	54.20	View TIL

Standard Check availability

Payment and billing method	Unit Rate pence per kWh	Standing charge pence per day	Tariff information TIL
Direct Debit and Paper Bills	33.97	49.17	View TIL
Pay as you go	32.93	54.20	View TIL
Direct Debit and Paperless Bills	33.97	49.17	View TIL

  Then I see car charging at 57p a kWh?  so they are supplying charging points and then adding the standing charge to the kWh per hour?

To me if you don't pay the price the car stays where it is?
Can you list the advantages?
And firstly the car (electric) still has to have an MOT but not emissions tested as their is none? 
  I just noticed something else?  Pay as you go is almost a penny cheaper but the standing charge 5p MORE?  WHY?  I THINK I WILL HAVE A PAPER BILL?
your comments......

woodbine

I saw petrol as low as £1.32 a litre last week

onebigvoice

woodbine said:

I saw petrol as low as £1.32 a litre last week

I also when in Tenby in SEPTEMBER 2022 saw Petrol at £1.25? a litre, and had been for some time, when I asked back in Cardiff (£183.3) why is it cheaper in Tenby, they said that independents can charge what they like.  I never knew Texaco was an Independent?   Have you seen the latest news.  People are having to Queue in motor ways because there are not enough charging points and are having to wait up to 2 hours to get to a plug?  This is happening now.
  Secondly, people are being booked for parking offences when they plug into fitting and they do not pay for parking as well?
  In Tesco's the sign says do not park here as these 4 points are for electric vehicle charging.  So is that also enforceable if I park in one of these bays with an electric vehicle and don't plug it in?
  This is only the start of things to come.  Wait till you have no control over electric prices?  OH that's right we all ready don't.   Food for thought?

OverlyAnxious

MOT checks many safety aspects - tyres, brakes, lights, wipers, etc.  Emissions test is only one small part of the MOT.  The time that would have been spent on that is replaced by checks on things like high voltage cabling instead for full EV's and hybrids.

I'm slightly confused by your tariff question.  You can plug in at home whenever you like.  But only a small amount of time is 'cheap rate'.  If you plug in at peak times it will cost full rate.  Standing charge is still only paid once per day.  

Public charging is more expensive.  Partly due to infrastructure & demand.  But also because public chargers pay much more VAT than private homes do on electricity.

Tesco have no enforcement over charging bays, in the same way they have no enforcement over disabled or parent & child bays.  They could employ a private parking agency to enforce if desired.


One massive advantage for very low mileage users is not having to go out of your way to a petrol station and the EV system being far more reliable and not subject to degradation through lack of use, unlike things such as oil and rubber belts.  I have not been able to drive for a while now, but the last 6 months that I could drive, there was not a petrol filling station within my range.

onebigvoice

While I agree with you about charging.  Whether you charge at home or while you park and shop it all comes from the same electricity supply.  Tariff's are set by demand and if I have not got an all electric car and are at home using my electric that I normally use when I need it.  Would my price be affected by when you charge your car?
  Also, yes the standing charge is once a day for home use but if its being charged from home who is paying for the standing charge then?  The person that is using the charging point and the price in "Tesco's" would reflect the standing charge?  Because if it was cheaper even one would be using that instead of having a point at home.  This is what I think.  
  This from the morning news,  

Electric car charging prices rocket 58% in eight months: An average family-size EV charged at public devices now costs 3p MORE per mile to run than a petrol

  You note it says PER MILE not per overall charge?  
I was mealy comparing how much per mile it costs to travel (electric/petrol) now with petrol coming down and electric going up?   This happened with diesel and petrol.  Diesel was lower till every one had one then and now its always about 20 pence a litre more than petrol so where is the saving in that?
  I also wonder, and this is a general observation, how do these "self charging" vehicles work?  Does this mean that once bought you don't have a range of 250 miles for instance since you don't need to charge and work off solar panels built into the car?  Or even kinetic energy from the wheels, either way does it mean you only need a "top up" charge say once a fortnight to keep it fully charged?
  One final question.  When they do comparison figures for fuel consumption/distance and compare this with diesel/petrol I don't see electric vehicles since the urban MPH has been dropped to 20 MPH this can't be fuel efficient?  most cars would not like to be in "top gear" whether a 4, 5, 6 speed box at 20 MPH?   Also Motorway figures at 62 MPH?

poppy123456

Yes of course the price is affected by what time of the day you charge your car from home. Energy companies will have a small amount of time when charging your car is much cheaper. For example, in the early hours of the morning. You can set the charger to come on and off within certain times.

onebigvoice said:

  Also, yes the standing charge is once a day for home use but if its being charged from home who is paying for the standing charge then?  The person that is using the charging point and the price in "Tesco's" would reflect the standing charge?  Because if it was cheaper even one would be using that instead of having a point at home.  This is what I think.  
  This from the morning news,  

Well obviously when charging at home, it's the person named on the energy account that pays the standard charge, i don't understand why you would think it could be anyone else.

The public charging points that are free are much much slower at charging your car because they have much lower KW and can take at least several hours, sometime longer to charge a car fully.

  I also wonder, and this is a general observation, how do these "self charging" vehicles work?  Does this mean that once bought you don't have a range of 250 miles for instance since you don't need to charge and work off solar panels built into the car?  Or even kinetic energy from the wheels, either way does it mean you only need a "top up" charge say once a fortnight to keep it fully charged?

Self charging vehicles (hybrids) are exactly that, they self charge and do not need to be plugged in to charge. No, they do not have solar panels built in. Most full hybrid (or self-charging hybrid) cars feature an internal-combustion engine, an electric motor and a small battery pack. As you drive along, some power from the engine and the kinetic energy recuperated from regenerative braking and coasting is used to charge the battery pack. Some shorter journey's round town can done on electric alone or a least the majority of the journey. It really depends on how heavy footed you are.

It switches from ICE to electric automatically depending on your speed. It is possible to drive at much lower speeds on full electric alone, providing there's enough charge in the battery. When the battery charge is low it just switches to the combustion engine. They give very good MPG especially in the warmer months. I have a self charging hybrid and during the wamer months can acheive anything up to about 65mpg. This does decrease to about 50mpg during the colder months because the battery doesn't keep it's charge for long because of the cold weather. More details here. https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/tips-and-advice/165210/what-is-a-self-charging-hybrid (though the same applies to full EV and PHEVs.)

Plug in hybrids (PHEV) needs to be plugged in to charge the battery and can run on battery alone but you also need fuel for the combustion engine. More details here. https://www.carwow.co.uk/guides/choosing/what-is-a-plug-in-hybrid

onebigvoice

Hi  Poppy 123456,
  you seem to well up on this subject, but I was asking about full electric vehicles that do not have a ICE?
Self charging to me means that, and wanted to know if they still require "topping up" every now and then, as the last time I looked they were working on a battery life of 1000Km not the 250 or so mileage that you get from the Hybrid I have.  On £30 petrol I get around 480 miles, and you are right it depends how you drive it, since when putting it to the test about 12 months I got 156 miles per gallon on the gauge 

poppy123456

onebigvoice said:

Self charging to me means that, and wanted to know if they still require "topping up" every now and then,

The clue is in the name here "self charging" means they charge theirself and do not need to be plugged in to charge the battery as fully explained in my comment above.

onebigvoice said:

 On £30 petrol I get around 480 miles, and you are right it depends how you drive it, since when putting it to the test about 12 months I got 156 miles per gallon on the gauge 

This tells me that you have a plug in hybrid, which does need to be plugged in to charge the battery. Those are completely different to self charging hybrids.

onebigvoice

No sorry mines a self charging, one of the reasons was because Cardiff council at that time would not put in a charging point at my house because, no off road parking or drive, would have to dig up the pavement to "sink" the charging cable over the foot path, they don't or won't do this as its a trip hazard.  So far as "free" electric, this was one of the selling points of the Tesla, and yes its a slow charge as if you continually fast charge your car you fry the battery's.  Although I don't know of anything in the contracts of electric vehicles should you have an all electric or Hybrid and the batteries do get fried are they changed free or what the cost is? 
  You also have to remember that the batteries are Solid State so that electrolysis or wet battery's are not used.  the new ones now being developed by Nissan increases charge efficiency and like the Transistor size is being reduced dramatically.
  One thing I do not understand is why the government with their plans to become green with zero emissions by 2025 would allow Britishvolts to go under owing £120 million.  Where are we going to be buying the battery's from when production stops of ICE cars?   

OverlyAnxious

Some EV's do have solar panels in the roof.  But they are only for running things like climate control and infotainment using the 12v battery.  The charge needed for the traction battery is so great that a roof mounted solar panel would not be large enough on a standard car.

Self-charging on your car will be done using the ICE engine and brake regeneration.  This is the problem with self-charging hybrids.  The battery only gets properly charged when using the ICE engine regularly...so if you mainly do short, slow journeys, the battery won't get charged much, and you'll be using more petrol/diesel to run the ICE engine.  That is why plug-in hybrids were created.  They can be plugged in and used on electric only for short journeys.  Only using the petrol engine when needed for extra speed or distance.  There are several types of hybrid on the market at the moment, all trying to meet different needs.

onebigvoice

I understand what you say and when I change my car next year, I think I might have sorted out what I really want, since most of my journeys are short but add up to around 80 miles a day.
still I am happy at the moment so that's O K  just really need to think of the next colour I want....